No one's arguing that his knee wasn't down. It was. My argument is that he was moving the ball from his right hand to left hand before Pace touched him. The move was shoddy at best, and arguably, not in Branch's possession. At this point, if he's not touched and the ball's not in his possession, that's a fumble because no one gives a shit about his knee if he hasn't been touched yet. Your argument is saying that he had possession before Pace touched him. I'm saying he didn't. The ball doesn't come out that easily if he does. Even if he did have control, it was so tenuous that I don't think video replay proves that he does. Because it was called a fumble on the field, it was absolute bullshit that it was overturned. I think video evidence was insufficient either way. Therefore, the call on the field should have stood as whatever was called. If it were called down by contact, it should have stayed. If it were called a fumble, it should have stayed. The call was bullshit, but the rules are more bullshit. Come up with a definitive answer to what possession is and stick with it. Or switch to college rules and don't allow a player to get back up once he's down. I'd be perfectly fine with that, especially since plays like that are way too hard for today's officiating crews apparently.
By that definition, I could in theory toss the ball from one hand to the other, and that's still complete possession? I disagree, it has to be a clean transfer. I don't have the rules in front of me, but if any transfer is acceptable, then that opens up a whole can of worms with fumble issues. His attempt was clearly to switch from one hand to the other, but it was far from smooth, I'd say juggled. That's not "clear possession", which if called on the field a fumble, to me is a fumble. Anyone can say this team didn't deserve to win, the offense sucked, etc. If you don't think it was a fumble, then good for you guys, but I'll disagree with you. And if you don't think that play changed the game, then also good for you guys. That to me was a fumble and changed the game, regardless of how badly the Jets played. We got lucky plenty of times to get to the playoffs the last two years. We need some luck to do it again. Calls like that should have gone our way and didn't. Without them, it makes it a lot tougher.
It wasn't close in the least. Obvious catch and then Branch got downed before he fumbled. Talking this much about a black and white, obvious call is just pathetic. Maybe we can bitch about the PIs (the refs were pretty aggressive) but the fumble call was right, period, and to say otherwise is just to be a whiny, sore loser.
Ironic no? In Consecutive weeks Boger makes questionable calls that in effect determine the outcome of a game? The officiating has gotten out of control. Its not a conspiracy, it's the end result of a league that is over legislating the game.
Think what you want but that play was so far from black and white. It amazes me how many people think that too. So any transfer is a clean transfer is what everyone on here is saying. I don't care about where his knee was. He caught the ball and while trying to get up and move the ball to the other hand at the same time, lost control during that process. Then got hit and the ball comes flying out, knee down but who cares if there's no control. I don't understand how you can say he had firm possession with how easily that ball got jostled out. I'm fine with the argument that he was down, but it's not cut and dry at all. And that doesn't make me a whiny, sore loser. It's trying to get a grasp on the rules that the NFL doesn't even have a grasp on.
You're right, he's wrong. I just watched it three times. Fumble, inconclusive ball moving. Incomplete Pass. Worst ruling was Reversal, Complete.
2011 NFL rule book Article 7 Note 3. Note 3: If a player has control of the ball, a slight movement of the ball will not be considered loss of possession. He must lose control of the ball in order to rule that there has been a loss of possession. http://www.blogandtackle.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2011NFLRuleBook.pdf
I don't think that rule is really meant to apply to the transfer, but more if a ball moves a little incidentally. A transfer from one hand to the other is not a slight movement, but obviously also doesn't indicate "loss of possession" necessarily either. The way it was transferred I would say you could argue he lost possession during the transfer or didn't. I thought he did lose possession, but I would call it inconclusive, which would rule in favor of the Jets because it was called a fumble on the field. It's all referee's judgment when the call is made in real-time. Once reviewed, it has to be conclusive to reverse it. I just don't see it. I didn't see a "slight movement", I saw a loss of control during the transfer.
and all of that is irrelevant because he was touched before that occurred, so the play was already dead.
This I agree with 100%, what the fuck is a football move? Seriously, I hate that stupid term. How do you define what a football move is? The game has gotten too fast for these senial old bastards. I've been syaing for years the NFL needs to have fulltime employees officating these games. A crew that can sit in an office for 4 days during the week and go over every questionable play so they have a clear understanding of the rules. It's quite clear that from week to week the officials is missing pretty obvious plays and calls but are so inconsistent in their calls from week to week it's sickening.
As a Steeler fan, it's comical any time I hear a team in a spiral blaming the refs. Last year I had to endure idiot Steeler fans insisting that the league was trying to single them out in spite of a superbowl appearance. The Jet's problem is that they have the worlds ugliest cheerleader for a head coach and the players and fans bought in to his cheers. If you dressed a turd in a Jets uniform and put a single digit number on it, Rex would proclaim the turd to be the best QB in the league. Put a 60's number on that same turd and Rex would proclaim the turd to be the best offensive lineman in the league. Rex will always be the guy who can turn a garbage franchise around and make them believe in themselves but he wont be a coach to win super bowls.......kinda like Dick Vermeil.
He did lose control, the full loss of cotnrol came after he was touched but he began losing control before he was touched. It was a bad call, we still had chances so it didn't cost us the game but it was a bad call. At worst it was so close that they needed to rule what was ruled on the field, there was not enough evidence to overturn.
I know Vermeil won one but he was always known as the guy who could turn a bad franchise around and make them believe in themselves but that was about it. I doubt if Rex win win one.
I don't recall him being known for that, that is what parcells is known for. Parcells did it w/ the Giants, Pats, Jets and Cowboys. vermeil did it w/ the Eagles and rams.
Officiating is killing the NFL. Did you watch last nights game? Let them play for Christ sake. The first quarter was horrid. ticky tack pass interferences, illegal contact and phantom holds. Last night a flag was thrown on the entire opposite side of the field of the player # called for the foul. the officiating in this league has been overall disgusting.
It was often said that Vermeil was an emotional leader who could make a team believe in themselves but he failed to make the best of the talent he had. But the real point is that Rex is a cheerleader and players and fans bought it.
a cheerleader who was probably the best DC in the league in baltimore and is one of the best HC's. You have him confused w/ Cowher.
