Some are saying that a change in OC would dictate a complete revamping of the offense. I don't see it that way at all. The ability to adjust on the fly is a major problem, we need an OC who can make adjustments as needed. A few new plays inserted and a few thrown in the trash may be all we need. Unfortunately Schotty has done nothing to remedy either of these issues. The talent level on this team is way too high to be having a season like this.
Regardless of if Shotty is the problem or not, at some point they have to cut ties with him if they players don't believe in the system. The fact that so many players have come out against him recently is scary for the Jets prospects. There is a lot of gloom and doom today, but the bulk of the Jets division games have not been played.
4 yards a carry is decent, and above what the ground game has been doing all year (which is around 3). But that's just it. The Jets could have opened things up, had Sanchez throw 40+ times and tried to win a trackmeet. Instead the Jets sat on the ball, played ground and pound, kept it close and hoped to pull out a win in the end. If the Defense gets some stops, or the WRs execute, or a call or two goes our way we could win that game. The game plan wasn't that bad, it's not like we got killed yesterday like we did playing the pats away last season. If you think the problem is the players, then you should believe we're finishing sub .500 no matter what, right? Or is it that you think Shotty is so much better than Callahan that having Shotty as OC is worth a few wins? lol.
Exactly. But as you can see, it's the same old bullshit being spouted over and over. Everyone wanted to get back to ground and pound. Rex demanded it publicly. This week Schotty tried that. It failed. So it's Schotty's fault? Because he did what his boss publicly mandated? But let's ignore what are actual facts in favor of what people can pretend are. Buffalo is strong. That's a team ready to contend. The Patriots are perennial. The Ravens are now here to stay. The Raiders are rising in a division that also has Phillip Rivers in it. The Texans are as well. Pittsburgh will always contend as long as Rothlisberger is there. The Titans look like they may cause trouble going forward. If Manning comes back, the Colts are right back in the game. That's 9 teams plus the Jets. That's if Cincinnati doesn't come up as well. Sanchez isn't improving, and is actually regressing. We just don't have a lot of quality young talent beyond CB, C, LT, LB and arguably DL. What we do have in terms of talent elsewhere is reasonable or old but not good and young. Right. If only the OC would have called for a touchdown instead of dropped passes or 4 yard runs. Whose fault is that? Is that Schotty's fault for doing what his boss demanded or is it Rex's fault for not just demanding it, but doing so at a podium where the best head coach in football could hear him? God forbid we blame Rex for anything. The only fact in your post is that there have been 3400+ posts in this thread. Except both players and coaches believed they had their best practice of the year this week. So again, is the problem the OC, the players, the head coach, or is it just maybe every-friggin-body? I'll give you a hint: It's everybody. A few thrown out and a few added are all that's needed? Like...yesterday? The talent level on this team is mediocre. Until it proves it can execute more than average yardage that's what it is. Except, you know, that whole thing was completely denied. But why let facts get in the way when shitty journalism (anonymous sources) can make up such a great story? So decent = good? The ground and pound has to be good to great in order to be effective. It wasn't. 86 yards by the #1 back isn't cutting it. Being better than the rest of the year isn't an argument either. If you ask me whether I'd rather eat chicken gizzards or chicken shit, the answer is obvious, but it isn't desirable. As I've asked, whose fault is it we didn't pass? Schottenheimer who has been strung up for calling too many passes and who was told to put the ball in Greene's hands, or the guy who told him to do it against the Patriots? I don't think it's too late to turn the season around and win 10-11. And yes, I think Schottenheimer is worth more wins than Callahan. I wonder if Rich Gannon would agree with me?
Well, what's easier to do? Get rid of EVERYBODY or get rid of the offensive coordinator? And in time let him bring in his own guys?
Alio, It's this sort of thing that makes one pass for a Schotty supporter around here. I am not saying he is the best play caller ever, and just like Tanny, Ryan, Callahan and others in the FO and CS responsible for the O, he bears responsibility for lack of execution (although that's mostly on the players themselves). But it just defies all common sense and logical discussion here when we heard Ryan after the Ravens game and since complain about the Jets not running it enough, how they were going back to Ground and Pound, and when Schotty actually calls a game much more run heavy, people here are clueless enough to wonder why the Jets threw as little as they did against the Pats' pass D, and to complain that it was Schotty's fault. Schotty called the game Ryan wanted. It's as simple as that. And it was Ryan's D that could not make a stop when the win was there to be had.
1. Let's see how Jets offense managed to go with 7 3-and-outs. Is it because ground and pound failed? Could be. I will not rule that possibility out. However, if I have to add my two cents, this is what I saw: Jets consistently failed on 1st and 10. Their pass failed. Their run failed. This resulted in 2nd and 10. After that, 3rd and 5-6, then punt. Isn't it funny? Patriots defense is not a '85 Bears defense, yet both pass AND run fails ALL GAME? We all blame the dropped balls on 3rd down and whatnot, but remember this: if you consistently fail on 1st and 2nd downs, you will most likely fail on 3rd down conversion. 2. I like how SDF almost always conveniently ignores the issues I address like these issues don't even exist. 3. Nobody complained about why Jets didn't throw as little as they did this week. (I didn't for sure.) It's about the route combinations that consistently fails. (But that falls on the players too, since Schottenheimer can NEVER be wrong with these.)
I'm not a Schotty hater, but I want him fired. I've wanted him fired for the last 2-3 years. I just don't believe that he's very good in some of the most critical aspects of his job (play calling, making quick adjustments, game planning to take advantage of mismatches and opponents' weaknesses, demanding consistent execution, predictability, etc.). I don't blame just him, however. The bottom line is that Rex is responsible for how this team performs, and all too often one or more units don't perform well. For all the talent the team has and the supposed great HC he is, the team struggles too much during the regular season. I lay most of the blame for this season's problems on Rex and Tanny. It's hard to know the exact percentages. Schotty does do what Rex tells him to at least part of the time, and that's part of the problem. I'm just not sure that Rex is smart enough to handle being a HC. His old man wasn't. Apples don't fall far from the tree. Even though he seems willing to learn, Rex seems to be stubborn to a fault at times. He talks too much to the media. He makes impulsive, emotional (irrational) decisions. He doesn't appear to be very cerebral with regard to the whole team. He can be slow to react and adjust as well. I was saying early in the offseason that I thought the wisest course would be for the team to re-sign as many of its own FAs as possible and minimize changes, both for chemistry and continuity's sake, as well as due to the impending lockout. With the lockout going as long as it did, it was even more imperative that the team do that, and use FA and the draft to address weaknesses. They upgraded the DL, but ignored the S position or addressing the pass rush. They lost 14 players from last year's teams. They lost a lot of leadership in the process. Bringing in Moore was a good idea, but I think BS still should have been fired at the end of last season. Other teams got new OCs and are doing very well offensively. Heck, Carolina's doing it with a rookie QB and a new HC. At any rate, I definitely think both Tanny and Rex deserve a lot of criticism for the troubles they've had this year. Neither ever seems to have a Plan B and Plan C in the ready in case Plan A doesn't work. They have to scramble and fly by the seat of their pants for a while. They don't prepare for all contingencies. They take unnecessary risks like going into a lockout shortened season with NO veteran OL depth and cap space. I hope this season serves as a wakeup call/reality check for Woody and the entire Jets' FO and CS, as well as the players. They still need to work hard to improve. No one is going to roll over because Rex shoots off his mouth to the media. Real changes need to be made in the way things are handled. How Rex handles this adversity will show whether he is really ready to be a HC or not.
That is a random comment if you ever saw one. The guy doesn't even manage his own o-line, Mangold does. Time and time again he didn't see blitzes that even I could see from my living room. Very few QBs call there own plays and Sanchez is no P.Manning
I have not previously been on this bandwagon. To some degree, the anti-Schotty rhetoric is just armchair fans. However, it would be impossible to ignore what has happened, that the offense is not getting nearly enough out of the talent it has. Whether it was Schotty or Rex, why decide to try to return to "ground and pound" in a week where you are going up against defensive linemen like Wilfork and Haynesworth, and the worst pass defense in the league? Why would you not be more aggressive with the passing game? True balance means being able to both pass and run, and basing your calls on your matchup strengths and the defense's weaknesses. It does not mean being dogmatically tied to calling almost identical numbers of runs and passes per game.
So do you believe Ryan wanted him to run the clock down with 11 minutes to go and down 2 TDs to Brady because that is what he did by continuing to run in that situation. No hurry up, no 2 minutet drill, just run it and take a minute a play off the clock...brilliant. Is he just too stupid to know when to run and when not to? Yeah, the D needed a stop but they haven't stopped anybody in weeks so why would you expect them to there?
why do so many people ask for Sanchez to call his own plays? Can you think of a QB LESS qualified to do that? In three years he hasnt learned a fucking thing. He is not on ioda better now that he was week 1 against theTexans his rookie year. He has no idea how to read a fuckin blitz or a fuckin defense. Hes fucking scared out there. Doesnt everyone see how fuckin fidgety he is? Its fire drill mode every fuckin pass. He is a below average QB and every single stat proves it but he should call his own plays? GTFOH
I have said since right after the Ravens game that BS should go, maybe not right now, for the sake of clarity. And I do criticize him not so much for playcalling and game planning as for the overall lack of performance by the O, which he is in part responsible for. I am not sure I am as down on Ryan as you are, but what made me appear to be a Schotty defender here is that the Schotty Haters did not, up until now, draw the connection between his being on the team and the fact that he reports to Ryan. I sense that is starting to change, albeit too slowly. But it is progress. Tanny was getting accolades from many. Imo that was mostly based on a couple of moves, not the overall quality of his moves. Revis was a great choice. Picking up LT last year was inspired. Befoer that I liked the Edwards pick up. Getting Cro after that horrendous game against Indy in the Champ game year before last. But he's had too many screw ups to deserve accolades. There was the Pete Kendall fiasco. No Plan B (a hallmark of Tanny's failures). Gholston. Was Sanchez really worth the picks it took to get him? Kyle Wilson, although he is starting to develop. VD. Was replacing Thomas Jones with Greene really an upgrade? I don't think so. Edwards left - why could not taht whole thing have been handled better? No pass rushing LB. Perhaps worst of all more recently was not getting better help on the OL bench, especially after Turner went down. Tanny is not great to be sure.
The Jets are still 3-3 against the Pats with Ryan as head coach. Yeah I think he bears responsibility for what's going on but lower in the order than you'd normally think. My pecking order at this point for who is to blame: 1. Mike Tannenbaum. This train wreck is happening because most of the big decisions he has made as Jet's GM are blowing back in his face at the same time. The Jets have no depth because he prefers to have value concentrated in a few players. The Jets have the same offensive system they've had for the last 5 years because he could not cut ties with Schotty when he let Mangini go. The Jets have a conflict between head coach and offensive coordinator because the head coach did not hire the offensive coordinator and the two of them have polar opposite views of what an effective offense is to match with the head coaches defense. The Jets have a developmental QB for the third season in a row because of all of the above. This mess is primarily on Mike Tannenbaum at this point. 2. Brian Schottenheimer. He just isn't a particularly good offensive coordinator and it would take a great one right now to avoid collapsing under the strains presented by this season. His entire offense is unstable and it's costing the Jets games. The Jets were disadvantaged going into the season by the myriad decisions that Mike Tannenbaum has made combined with a few key injuries. They've been further disadvantaged in season by the Jets offensive staffs inability to cope with the weak hand they were dealt. 3. Rex Ryan. His defense is not as good as advertised and his control of the team is weak at this point. Loose lips sink ships and apparently nobody on the Jets is afraid to start flapping when the going gets tough. He's been handicapped by Tannenbaum's reckless wheeling and dealing but he also is not fully in control of the team. I bet he wishes like hell right now that the idea of signing Derrick Mason had never come up. Jerrico Cotchery only said things that supported the team and he had some chemistry with Sanchez. Mason has been a disaster. 4. Mark Sanchez. There comes a point when you have to walk the walk and while Sanchez often finds that transition easy to make in a tight game he also does really poorly early on. Combined with Schotty's tentative decision making and inability to adapt on the fly early in games the Jets are about the worst first quarter team I have ever seen. Sanchez also needs to get back to the "don't lose the game" mentality that has served him and the Jets so well in the playoffs. There are times to gamble and take chances and there are times when you just eat the ball or preferably throw it away. Sanchez has been able to get to this mindset consistently in the playoffs and had it at the start of last season before losing his way again. He needs to find it again or we're going to be looking for a new QB fairly soon. NY eats up good QB prospects who don't win really fast. Eli Manning would have been run out of town by now if he didn't luck into the win against the Pats in 2007. Sanchez will be run out of town in a year or two if he doesn't find the qualities that he displays in clutch time and in the playoffs and make them his normal routine. That's just what it is. A QB who is deer in the headlights four or five times a season is never going to last in this town.
we lost because the players dropped 6 or more passes. We lost because the DEFENSE allowed a scrub rb too get 136 yards and beat them! Yet all we call for is Schotty to be fired. How about PETTINE? In 3 years he has not figured out how to stop TEs from killing us. The run game has killed us twice this road trip. Yet Schotty must go> There is more to this disgraceful loss then Schotty. Its time fans stop scapegoating one guy and blame them all!
Of course, I wasn't just referring to the daily news stories. There is what Jenk said, as well as what the players were hinting at in their post game interviews last week. That's the point. It's just not one story with anonymous stories, it's to the point where ex-players are pointing these things out and current players are hinting at it (if not going outright to the coach). In addition, do you think they're not going to deny something like that? C'mon man. Yeah, 4 yards a carry is fine and an improvement over what we had. Throwing out the statistics for a minute, the Jets did exactly what the gameplan called for on offense. They kept the game close and made no turnovers. The defense couldn't get a stop when we needed it. Yup. I totally buy it too, that Rex gets into this mood where he doesn't trust Shotty or Sanchez and feels like his D can win the game if the offense doesn't screw it up. I don't really fault Rex (or Shotty) for trying to play yesterday conservative even tho the pats have a bad pass defense. It was more poor execution (and perhaps a few bad playcalls) than anything else. originally you wrote: Then you wrote: So you think Shotty is worth two to three more wins than Callahan? As far as Gannon disliking Callahan's system, he was fairly successful with Callahan as a head coach when they went to the superbowl. Regardless, I don't think Schottenheimer is the cause of all the Jets problems, but I'll still stand by the original statement...if the players have lost faith that they can win with his system, then he needs to go...Much like Callahan did in his last year with the Raiders.
