Joe was a pretty accurate QB if memory serves me correctly Joe threw into tight windows all the time because of his accuracy. He was able to throw into tight windows in spite of the fact he didn't have a great arm. Substanatially better than Pennington's post surgical arm however.
Last, but not the least, the point of that post was that: 1. Pennington had but a month to get acclimated to the Dolphins Offense. 2. Even though he spent that little time with Dolphins crew, he still posted results that none of his results during his tenure under Schottenheimer could match. So if the claims (or excuses?) from Schottenheimer defense force that Schottenheimer never had a stable QB situation hold any value, then how do you explain what happened down there at Miami? I demand explanation for that - a month, but still good for 19/7 result, which Pennington never posted during Schottenheimer's guidance. We all know what kind of offensive rubble Dolphins were at that time, so talent at the offensive side is definitely not in Pennington's favor. And remember, Dolphins QB situation was much worse than Jets situation as they didn't even have a starting caliber QB to start with. ---------------------------------------------------------------- If I were you, I'd be thinking of Occam's razor. Either Jets had ungodly bad luck in terms of QB personnel, ending up with string of 5 QBs who had no business in the NFL, or Schottenheimer designs piss-poor plays that nobody can succeed in. Of course Offensive performance involves a lot more than just OC, but then I have shown you other offensive crews are doing (or have done in the past) at least adequate job, starting from WR coach, RB coach and OL coach.
No Jet QB has looked completely comfortable in Schotty's offense at any point. That was somewhat understandable when he had a new QB every year. For Sanchez to still be uncomfortable in it in his third season is really kind of an indictment of the system. The OC's job is to put together a scheme that his players can execute well and score plus points with. The only time this has happened for Schotty and the Jets is when Brett Favre was signed on August 8th, after training camp had already begun, and it was mutually agreed that the Jets would heavily modify the offense to allow Favre to fit in well early in the season.
This is the part I do not agree with. I can even give you three examples right off the bat where the bold part is not necessarily true. Schottenheimer has no feel for his QB - if that's what you are trying to imply, then I agree 100%.
What I'm trying to imply, and what I've felt for a long time now, is that the system Schotty is trying to implement requires a great QB and one whose skills fit the system. It's not a system that can be taught to a QB and run with any great success unless that QB is really a fit for the system. The Jets have not yet had, and do not currently have a QB who is a fit for the system. That's why the system has looked mediocre for the 5+ years Schotty has been trying to implement it. The Oakland Raiders ran their own version of the WCO when they were very good from 2000-2002. That offense was completely dependent on the fact that Rich Gannon could run it well and that it brought out the best in him with it's emphasis on short to mid range passes from sideline to sideline. It featured the ability to switch from a pass heavy game to a run heavy game to exploit whatever the particular opponent's weakness was. It was like a perfect conjunction of system and QB and the Raiders basically did whatever they wanted to on offense over that 3 year span. I don't want to wait for our Rich Gannon to magically materialize and run Schotty's system well enough to get the Jets over 400 pts a year on offense for a good run at dominance. We have a young QB now with a lot of potential. We need to stop trying to make him fit in the system that requires a great QB with excellent read skills, accuracy and pocket presence and instead adapt the system to work for a natural scrambler/gambler who does better throwing straight up the field than in the checkdown game underneath. It's plain to see at this point, whether you think it is Schotty or Sanchez that is at fault, that the two of them have no real chemistry in terms of the results that Sanchez produces in Schotty's system. We can't get rid of the young franchise QB without setting the team back a couple of seasons at least and nothing that Schotty has produced so far suggests that we should keep him over Sanchez. Could his system work with the right QB? Who knows? We've never seen it work so we can't make that judgment. Let some other team wait for Schotty's lightbulb moment on why his offense hasn't worked so far or alternately find him his perfect QB to run it. I'd rather the Jets developed Mark Sanchez than Brian Schottenheimer to be honest. Even if we developed Schotty we'd still be waiting on his QB to show up and make it work alongside him.
And the problem I have with what you wrote is that if it is correct, Rex and T are the culprits, not Schotty. They are allowing his act to go on and on and yet they do have the power to dump him but don't. Yet the fans here go after SCHOTTY relentlessley while make little mention of REX and T. remember: the HC sets the direction for the team and the OC develops the offensive plans. Then the HC approves them or not. Farve was the only experienced QB that Schotty had to work with and we were running away with the division until he got injured. Guess what? Schotty was the OC at the time Farve was tearing it up. Can it be Sanchez harming the offensive schems and playcalling? Speaking about coordinators, Pettine still has not found a way to defense good tight ends or develop a passrusher. T has not found a way to stock the defense with players that can stop good tight ends or acquire a passrusher. This is only year 3 of this regime. Can it be that a little more time is required in order to get all the parts necessary to be great? We dump on the OC yet he developed a very raw kid into a NFL QB that brought us to the AFCCG two years in a row. That is not too shabby. When we lose we seem to need a scapegoat and SCHOTTY is that for Jets fans. Not too surprisingly they were very quiet when we were winning last year or when Farve was tearing up the NFL with us.
Posters on this board were tearing into Schotty after the opening loss to the Ravens (10-9) and the loss to the Packers (9-0). Even in a season in which the Jets were playing well overall Schotty's inability to exploit an unusually long preparation time (the off-season for the Ravens game, 14 days at the bye) and make in-game adjustments when his offense was collapsing on the day were key factors in two losses. While it's true that some of the blame here falls on the management structure above Schotty for not recognizing the problems it's also true that he's just not a particularly good offensive coordinator. The people who say he's bad, bad, bad, get rid of him are missing the point. I don't think he's bad, I just don't think he's good either and his mediocrity is holding the team back. If the Jets had an offensively minded head coach this would be much less of an issue. That coach would take over when he needed too and rein Schotty in. The problem is that the Jets have had 2 defensive head coaches in a row and they can't control the damage when the jets are losing because the offense has imploded again. In that circumstance we really can't afford to have an offensive coordinator who self-destructs as often as Schotty does. Yeah it's only a few games a year in which his side of the ball really costs the Jets the game but those few games are what are killing the Jets chances to get homefield advantage and make a real run at the Super Bowl.
You really can't judge much by what posters on this board do. There's some that only show up to point fingers and lay blame after a loss. oh wait....Hi!
Pennington made the playoffs under Shotty and under the Dolphins he shit the bed in his one playoff game for each team. The talent around him in Miami was far superior than the talent he had in 06 under Shotty. Shotty did a good job in 06 and in 08 up until Favre hurt his arm. 07 was a lost year because of the OL. Shotty has hit a wall here and needs to go so the team can evaluate Sanchez under a different system.
Roster comparison: Jets (06) vs Dolphins (08) WR: Jets: Coles, Cotchery, McCareins Dolphins: Camarillo, Ginn Jr., Davone Bess TE: Jets: Chris Baker, Sean Ryan Dolphins: Anthony Fasano, David Martin RB: Jets: Kevan Barlow, Leon Washington Dolphins: Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams OL: Jets: Ferguson/Road Pylon/Mangold/Moore/Clement (as good as Road Pylon) Dolphins: Long/Road Pylon/Road Pylon/Smiley/Road Pylon ----------------------------------------------------------------- Ok. In case of RB and OL, it's a push (even though Dolphins side seems slightly worse) TE and WR, Jets were clearly better. Just where did you get that far superior squad? Pennington's squad at Dolphins during 08 wasn't that much better (if not worse.) Stop talking out of your own ass.
The fallacy of your statements is that we have had defensive disasters during the recent span of time and you do not call for anyone's head on the defensive side of the ball.. The Chokeland game a few weeks ago was an example and so was Baltimore. You win as a TEAM and lose as a TEAM. Again, if REX sees that Schotty is HURTING" the jets in a few games each year, why doesn't he fire him? What I think REX sees is a OC taking a raw QB to the AFCCG twice in two years and developing him! We are 2 and 2 and should beat NE and Miami in our next two games. That would make us 4 and 2 and in the running for the top spot in the AFC East. Yet you cry about SCHOTTY and fail to unserstand that REX sets the direction of the team. Rex is responsible for all things Jet. As HC he just declared that we will run maybe 60 times against a team with the worst secondary in the NFL currently. If Schotty said that you and others would be jumping out of your skins. Who would you recommend to replace SCHOTTY and why? Callahan? Cavanaugh? Moore?
You'd honestly call Kevan Barlow and Leon Washington vs Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams a push? Ricky and Ronnie were a sick tandem a few years ago. The main issue was that Brown was always hurt.
I'm hoping tomorrow is one of Schotty's signature bounce back games, I really am. But, for the record, the fact that so many players have gone on record about him in the past year... I can't even start to believe he's in our long term best interests. Nick Mangold - "Schotty is holding me back." http: //profootballtalk.nbcsports. com/2010/10/17/nick-mangold-brian-schottenheimer-is-holding-me-back/ Holmes - "We're not adjusting... Predictable... We can't keep doing the same things when it's not working." LT - "We were looking at your guys’ depth. When you’re deep, it’s a run. When you’re close, it’s a pass.’ Certain things like that. Defenses, they pick up on that stuff.” Mason - "There are cracks." Sanchez - "Predictable." Kris Jenkins, Clowney, all saying similar things. Seriously.
While I am as big an anti BS guy as there is. Occam's Razor cuts only your Pennington/Miami argument. He was GOING BACK to Dan Hennings offense. Which he had learned as a rookie, and parts of which the Jets still ran under Paul Hackett. That said, Schotty still sucks. Pass plays that take longer than 4 seconds to develop, should be an accent, not a staple of your passing game in this day and age.
Second question. Charlie Weis. Get his fat ass out of Florida no matter how much coin it takes. The Pats are still running his legacy. First question...Baltimore? AYFKM? Defense? Baltimore scored 34. 21 off the Jets offense. Holding Baltimore's O to 13, is not a defensive lapse by any stretch. Letting Sanchez line up under Center, in the I to Pass, is idiocy. Watch the tape, late in the third qtr, Collinsworth says "I can't believe it took the Jets this long to try to spread out the Baltimore defense. That's how you attack a defense like this"
The thing is RBs work with OLs - unless the RB happens to be Barry Sanders, which Ronnie and Ricky at that point of his career were NOT. Dolphins at that time (2008) had three road pylons of OL at that time, and had to resort to wildcat during the season (against Pats, nonetheless) to force the defense to respect their running threat, because conventional method wasn't just working. Are you telling me that was better than whatever Jets had back during 2006 or after? Sure, in 2006 Kendall disaster struck, and a road pylon named Anthony Clement was playing RT, but still had Ferguson, Mangold and Moore playing their respective position.
Not really. That's not the point. One of the main battle cries from SDF (Schottenheimer Defense Force) was that Schottenheimer never had stable QB situation. If that claim holds, then Pennington at Miami had to fail miserably by the same virtue (remember, Pennington could spend but ONE MONTH before the season to get himself acclimated to the Dolphins Offense), and Fitzpatrick should have failed in same miserable magnitude in Buffalo - which they did not. Either the "Unstable QB Situation" is an utter bullshit or miracle struck the AFC East not once but TWICE. Occam's razor tells me that the instability at QB situation is an utter bullshit, and instead it's one more example of Schottenheimer's ineptitude at OC job.
FINALLY! Players going to Rex about Schitty. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...ed_by_plaxico_burress_santonio_holmes_ma.html
Its about damn time! Schotty has gotten a pass for far too long on his "system". After a while, it stops being about the execution and starts being about the plan..
