In the last twenty years only five teams have won the Sb without Qb's who are not in the hall of fame or on their way there. Add that to the fact that the Raven and Buccaneer teams had two of the Greatest defenses of all time. Those defenses were way better than us and they were only able to win one time. It does not look to good for us having a mediocre at best QB in a great time for them in the Nfl. Not to mention Buffalo will only get better and it looks like Luck is headed to Miami with the first pick next year. Our team will have to win a SB despite our avg Qb play as usual. Super Bowl 24. Joe Montana (MVP), 5 TDs Super Bowl 25. Jeff Hostetler (Ottis Anderson), 1 TD Super Bowl 26. Mark Rypien (MVP), 2 TDs Super Bowl 27. Troy Aikman (MVP), 4 TDs Super Bowl 28. Troy Aikman (Emmitt Smith), O TDs Super Bowl 29. Steve Young (MVP), 6 TDs Super Bowl 30. Troy Aikman (Larry Brown), 1 TD Super Bowl 31. Brett Favre (Desmond Howard), 2 TDs Super Bowl 32. John Elway (Terrell Davis), 0 TDs Super Bowl 33. John Elway (MVP), 1 TD Super Bowl 34. Kurt Warner (MVP), 2 TDs Super Bowl 35. Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs
Remember though that winning the Super Bowl several times gets you into the Hall of Fame. Terry Bradshaw went to the Pro Bowl 3 times while he was winning 4 Super Bowls over a 14 year career. If you looked at his numbers over the years there is no way you consider him HoF material. Troy Aikman went to the Pro Bowl 6 times while he was winning 3 Super Bowls. Again if you look at his numbers he is not HoF material. It's the wins that got him there. John Elway's numbers and career through his first 12 years? Not HoF. Add in the two rings at the end? Slam dunk. We're in a cyclical phase where the QB's and offenses have gotten ahead of the curve for a bit. What will happen as a result of that? More teams will look hard at what Rex Ryan and the Ravens are doing to throw good QB's off stride. The NFL will evolve to more of that on defense and things will come back into balance. That's what happens in a competitive environment. Things continually shift to come back into balance. 4-3's become 3-4's become 4-3's etc. In ten years we'll look back on this as the golden age of the QB. What we'll have in it's place is not clear but between now and then we're going to have a lot more pressure on the QB because if you let Drew Brees and Tom Brady sit back there they are going to pick you apart all day long.
No, you're wrong. He means in this league if you want to have a pass oriented offense that can get it done with the lack of top shelf running attack, a Qb who can do that meets Jenks's definition of exceptional.
The point you are trying to make here seems elusive. It is one thing to question the career long performance of Elway, Bradshaw and Aikman compared (I assume you are suggesting) to some other Qb's in the HOF. It is another thing entirely to imply that Mark Sanchez is anywhere near the talent of those three guys. He clearly is not.
Elway looked hapless as a rookie and in his second year was benched twice by his coach before finally winning the job. His third year he threw more Interceptions than touchdowns, as he also did in his sixth. If he was Jet's QB right now performing as he had already you'd be saying that he was nowhere near as talented as advertised and the Jets weren't going to win anything with him at QB. Terry Bradshaw however was much worse than Elway early on. In fact he has one of the worst records for a rookie QB ever. His QB rating that year was just above 30 and his career rating as of his 6th season was in the mid 50's. His career rating. You'd have looked at his faults and said that he'd never learn time to throw that guy out. Aikman did much better than the other two in his first couple of seasons but he didn't do as well as Sanchez did. [He had several HoF linemen in front of him also] *hyperbole check - should have been several Pro Bowl caliber linemen, Nate Newton was the only HoF caliber lineman and he's in the vets committee at this point. Larry Allen came along in 1994. Between Allen and Newton they made 16 Pro Bowls and rank 1-2 in Cowboys history for Pro Bowl appearances by a lineman - and they'd preceded him onto the team just as Sanchez line did. He just kept making mistakes and throwing Int's at bad times. He'd never learn. Well that would have likely been your line on him after watching him for two seasons. In 1991 the Cowboys lost their third game of the season to drop to 1-2. Aikman threw 3 interceptions and got sacked 11 times by the Eagles. Off with his head! He'll never be our guy. The Cowboys recovered and made the playoffs that year and won 3 out of the next 4 Super Bowls after that. Give Mark Sanchez a break. Given his actual progress to date the odds are really good that he's at least as good as Troy Aikman was when Cowboys fans were no doubt thinking he'd never get it done.
Big Jenks is dead on the fucking money, and 90% of the people here know it. As far as Shotty goes, he has been consistent for the last 4 years.......enough said. When the music on the radio sucks you change the damn station.... You really can't judge Sanchez very well with this joke of an oline and the predictable as hell play calling. Hard to be impressive when your shaking in your boots cause no one knows how to call the coverages, and your running for your life every down. Fix the oline and change the OC then lets see what we've got.
Quite well done, actually. I agree with most of the points here. Especially, the line call stuff is quite damning evidence against Callahan. He shouldn't be promoted to OC if he can't even stay on top of this OL unit like this. (Also, know that I was NEVER a proponent of Callahan promotion anyway, even if I do belong to that avid Schottenheimer hater group.) I still think the FA period could have played out quite differently. Jets could target at least 3 guys with legitimate shot: Bryant McKinnie, Dawan Landry and Johnathan Joseph. In case of McKinnie, he would have gotten short term contract (not longer than 2) and I am certain he would have looked better than Wayne Hunter. In that regard, the blame should go to Tannenbaum and Rex.
I'm sure you know exactly what Jenk was implying since you sat down to discuss it with him at ihop this morning before breakfast, right?
I agree with what he said, it's obvious we all saw the same game. You make adjustments in real time because that's when it is needed.
He said it was too complicated given the state of the OL: "the Jets can't afford good. They need exceptional, and they need exceptional play calling. The money is in the skill positions. So the lines need to be good enough to let the money players get the job done. That takes exceptional coaching." He says the OL needs to be good enough to use the players the team has spent money on in the skill positions. It's not that obscure. Jenks's point here also reflects his saying 3 step Shotty about time.... That's all you got. The current condition of the OL only permits three step drops. What else is it about the Jets that makes anything more than a three step drop too complicated? You can't possibly mean he thinks that about the league in general. All successful teams only use three step drops? Hardly. You have to play 2 strengths. Where is the sprint pass if the oline is horrible. When your OL is horrible is the key. Play to your remaining strengths. Which he elsewhere defines as the money players in the skill positions, meaning the receivers. Not that complicated. Jenks made his point.
Honestly, I am surprised that this point hasn't caught more fire on this board. It is inexcusable that, of all people, BM wouldn't know the line calls. He's been here long enough. How the fuck wouldn't you prepare for this type of eventuallity? I know another poster said something earlier to imply that Mangold getting hurt didn't seem likely given his track record, but it's that track record which would make me more paranoid, not less. Sounds stupid, but this line was due for an injury. It's had a fantastic run with respect to health.
I was never a big fan of jinx but he has sure won me over now. I have to agree with what he said. And schoty needs to go and I mean right now, today. Sent from my EVO 3D
Quite true, and the fact that the only replacement they have is an undrafted rookie has to raise some eyebrows.
It was eluded too but not sure if posted Kris reacts on the Wheelhouse http://www.thejetsblog.com/2011/10/05/wheelhouse-kris-jenkins-10311/ Pretty similar to his tiraid on twitter in the first post. Love Kris.
Let's talk about Elway, since I am not that familiar with Bradshaw's early career. The Broncos were 2-6 in the strike shortened 82 season. With Elway in 83 they went 9-7 and made the playoffs. That is a pretty substantial impact, and not comparable to Sanchez's with the Jets, already a very good team. Elway's particular role in 83 was not comparable to Sanchez's on the Jets, because the Qb situation was different. In 82 Craig Morton was actually in his last season of a long career with the Broncos, and for those who don't know Morton he did take the Broncos to the SB. (Interesting factoid was he was NFL Comeback Player of the Year in 77.) But in 82 the Broncos were mixing Morton with Steve DeBerg at Qb. DeBerg was with them in 81, and actually played better for Denver in 81, going 77+ Qb rating in 81 to 76+ in 82. Still, Morton retired and the Broncos got Elway going into 83. But DeBerg was still there, too. But DeBerg had a better year again in 83. His Qb rating was 79+. DeBerg also was not over the hill like Morton. He played another ten years in the league, and was only 28 in 83. In short, the Broncos were not comitted to starting Elway in 83 what with DeBerg on the team. So that explains why Elway didn't start his whole rookie year. Concededly, Elway had a rough start his rookie year, and probably it didn't help having DeBerg hovering over his shoulder. So Denver traded DeBerg to Tampa Bay in 84, and Elway was now the clear starter. Backup was Gary Kubiak, who interestingly was also new to the team in 83, having been drafted by Denver. In 84 Elway improved his performance, throwing 18 tds to 15 ints and a plus 76 Qb rating while the Broncos went 13-3 in the regular season. It is true that Kubiak started two games in 84, and actually his stats looked better than Elway's. But see below. Sanchez has yet to complete his third season, so I am not sure of the point of comparing Elway's season long stats for year three to MS's. But one could hardly make the case that Elway performed worse in his first two years than Sanchez. The benchings you refer to and his not starting all games were anomalies compared to Sanchez's situation with the Jets. I do think it fair to say, however, that Elway only had one decent receiver in 85, that being Steve Watson, and arguably one decent TE between Kay and Wright, who together caught less than 60 passes. No one other than Watson contributed much. The well known Vance Johnson was a rookie in 85, and did not start full time until later (he did start seven games in 85). Anyone who followed Elway knows his story was he always had to make do without a decent running game until Terrell Davis. Yet he was one of the best Qb's in the league, going to three SB's before Davis, losing those but winning two at the end. I do think it inapt to compare him to Elway in his first two or three years, who had less talent at receiver. His line was not great, either. I think he continues to make stupid mistakes. Elway by comparison was playing in a more long ball offense, and many of his INT's occurred on long pass attempts. The game has changed in that regard. See Kenny O'Brien for a comparison. YOu also can't possibly compare Elway and Sanchez in terms of sheer physical talent. Elway was one of the best physically equipped Qb's to ever play the game. He had one of the greatest arms in NFL history. While Sanchez is much better moving out of the pocket than we wee used to in Chad, Elway was one of the best of his era in that regard, while not being of Michael Vick quality, the double edged sword that that is. The challenge Denver faced with Elway in their small media market was to get him quality receivers and a complimentary running game. Sanchez has had those from the get go. Regarding your second bolded statement, I have never said Sanchez cannot develop into an SB Qb. It is not impossible. I think you already know all this but just felt like reaching to defend Mark. Nice try, but you know as well as I do that Mark Sanchez is no John Elway, and almost certainly never will be. (Although I would be thrilled to be proven wrong about that.)
Well, uh, thanky you, uh, vera much. Heh. I am glad we are in agreement about Callahan. I didn't know about that line call stuff until today. I was talking to Cakes about Callahan's sordid history in Oakland and Nebraska earlier today on a different thread, but if you add in the poor OL play and this really inexcusable info about no one else knowing the OL play calls, I think he's disqualified to replace Schotty. (I thought he was a terrible candidate before today, but there you are.) It is to your credit that you do not belong to the (literally) Anybody But Schotty! club. And while almost certainly Ryan and Tanny are in for blame for not getting more bench help for the OL after Turner went down, I think it not unreasonable to let Callahan share some of hte blame, too.
