Who owns this mess?

Everyone. It's that simple.

 

I blame medical science for not making people with indestuctable body parts.

 

so does Chad Pennington.

 

Last year we were able to effectively run 7 man offensive line fronts.

We just gambled that we wouldn't run into injuries on the line and lost. That falls on Rex and Tanny.

Hunter looked fine in the playoffs so we thought Ducasse not being ready wasn't the end of the world. Then our main back-up interior lineman went out for the season, now our all-pro center who has never missed a game is out of action. You can have an average LG and a RT that struggles early in the season (we would all like to assume Hunter will get better). But now, it's 60% of the line, and that is too steep an uphill climb.

Right now it's on Tanny for not signing someone on the offensive line. Rex also, he needs to chirp up if he recognizes shit is about to hit the fan in one area. I don't know why we are sitting on this cap room.

As crappy as Schottenheimer generally is, as mediocre as Sanchez can play at times, and as disappointing as Greene has been, you can't evaluate anything without a serviceable offensive line.

 

Agreed. I still have faith we can turn it around and I'm hoping that once we get Mangold back our OLine will become stronger and deeper as a result of trial by fire.

 

my main problem with the offensive playcalling with this game was that it seemed like there was no preparation or gameplanning whatsoever... we all knew the ravens were gonna blitz the shit out of us all game. how do you not gameplan against that... there are certain types of plays that can counter a blitz... i was waiting all game for some screen plays and draws... that D had their ears pinned back all game... a few of those types of plays wouldve kept them honest... either way i dont think that would change the outcome of the game but i feel like its the obvious thing to do...

i dont know what they expected sanchez to do with ZERO time to throw... to think we were not going to be outmatched by that D is just ignorant

 

A bit on Tanny a bit on Callahan. In Tannys defense his #1 backup went out in preseason and there was really no one else out there to bring in at that point.

 

Of course, #28Martin would put all the blame on Tanny.

 

Last time I checked, Woody Johnson owns this mess.

 

Good post. For years, I've thought that Tanny was both arrogant and overrated by Jets fans. He's either the best or 2nd best GM the team has ever had by virture of its sorry ass history, but that isn't saying much. He trades away too many picks. Other than using two #1s on the OL and the #1 and #3 pick this year on the DL, he has ignoreed both the O and D lines. He has ignored the safety and OLB positions.

I think Rex is a close second however. As you correctly point out, the buck stops with Rex. BS reports to him, and it doesn't appear that he has been held accountable for the sorry play of the offense for big stretches. Sure,there has been some improvement this year, but too little considering all the talent the team has had on offense during his tenure. Rex was pleased with the pass rush and thought it sufficient. He wanted Nnamdi and wasted all that time. He did nothing to address the team's needs following last season, and they even lost some solid contributors/depth. I think his continual predicting the SB and praising the players too much has left them thinking all they have to do is just show up and they'll win. The team often doesn't seem prepared physically or mentally. They aren't playing tough, hard-nosed football. The team has gotten away from what made them successful. They had veteran leadership, played smart and tough defensively, and pounded the ball (and other team) on offense. Now they've tried to go to a more pass-oriented offense, operate more by finesse, and have become more passive on D. He either overestimated his abilities or those of his players, or is just a bad talent evaluator.

I'm not sure about Callahan. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, much less out of pig shit. Hunter, Ducasse and Baxter are all pig shit. I think the Jets should have either drafted an RT prospect or brought in a vet for insurance. After Turner went down and with Moore recovering from offseason surgery, they should have signed a vet OG backup and didn't. With money to do it, not doing it amounts to sheer stupidity/ignorance and arrogance. Thus Callahan hasn't had much to work with. BS surely hasn't helped the OL out by consistently keeping a TE on Hunter's right to help him out.

Too, based on what I've read, much of the success of OL play is due to the chemistry they develop and knowing what each other will do. They never had a chance to develop that this year with the lockout. They practically ignored the rushing attack in preseason games so couldn't build that cohesion then. Let's also not forget that Mangold made the line calls and he's been out. Perhaps that explains Ferguson's lackluster play. Hunter played well at the end of last year, but that's the only time in his career. Going into the season with him as the starter with no contingency plan other than Ducasse was insanity. No GM (in his right mind) with a team that had been to the AFC Championship 2 years in a row and that had been very lucky with injuries would have even thought of going into a season with not one solid veteran backup on the OL. I'm not sure if Callahan and BS see eye to eye and work together or at cross purposes, either.

 

Lots to cover here. Since I agree with you about Tanny, specifically regarding the OL, and I would also add (although it presently is a lesser concern) the lack of a pass rush, I will talk first about Callahan. Ryan at some point later.

I think I tend to be more skeptical of Callahan than many here, and I get the impression those who tout him highly are simply not that aware of his history. I can't help thinking of him without thinking of the Peter Principle. He was Oakland's OC under Gruden, and together they built their team around Rich Gannon, who to me was just not a good fit for the Raider organization. He got his share of good stats and wins, but there was also a bit of a choker inside him, and I just didn't think he was all that tough. Yet they had relative success, to all their credit, up to a point. Gruden left the year before they made it to the SB, and as everyone knows ironically losing to Gruden and Tampa Bay.

Now who gets the credit for their having made it as far as the SB? Well, it's not hard to answer that when you saw what happened the very next year, which was basically that Callahan lost control of the team and was chased out of town. The players hated him for the most part. Out of town is an understatement, he was chased out of the league, ending up running the Nebraska program. Which he failed at as well. Next stop the NY Jets as a positions coach, and then some made up moniker of being the OC's assistant on the running game.

Now I in general believe in the concept of redemption, and it is far from impossible that someone like Callahan, if given the chance, might someday succeed as an OC. And it did seem there for a few years that he was helping quite a bit running the OL. The question is how much credit when they succeeded, and how much blame for now. As your post focuses on.

On one level, we as fans don't really know how much Callahan has say on regarding personnel moves on the line and for the running game. But I doubt it's none. (If it were literally none, that would tell you something else, imo.)

On this particular point you have to remember that Callahan was talking up Hunter this off season as someone who would make the transition from Woody seamless. Hasn't worked out that way, of course. That's no doubt Hunter's fault, but also Callahan's.

How about Callahan's role in assessing Ducasse's progress? Well, it's entirely possible he's taking the position Ducasse is a waste of breatheable air, but Tanny won't get rid of him, having picked him so high in the draft. But whateve the answer here, we can't say developing Ducasse has been a success, either.

Slauson. He was the answer to the Jets move in letting Faneca go, and I do not dispute that Faneca was getting on there. But Slauson was also the weakest starter on the team last year, at least early on. How well has he advanced? Well, you remember Faneca at his peak? Or even when he first came to the Jets? Slauson is still no Alan Faneca.

Moore. I get the feeling that Moore has passed his peak, and that is also part of the problem. I can't blame Callahan for this, though. Except in terms of what to do with the overall OL, it's not surprising at Moore's age that he is starting to decline.

OL Bench. But the heart of the problem is the failure to have adequate strength here, a concern that was multiplied when Turner got hurt. To what extent is Callahan responsible for the clearly inadequate approach the Jets have taken here? Again, it's probably a shared responsibility among Tanny, Ryan, Schotty and Callahan. But given Callahan's role, I can't say he has no responsibility, until established otherwise.

Looking back over the last few years, it is fair to say that Callahan benefitted from the addition of Mangold and Ferguson, signing even a declining but still contributing Faneca, and getting Woody from Miami. All good players, and we should not be surprised that the Jet OL there for a few years was one of the best in the league. I would also give Callahan credit for Moore's development into a solid player.

But the Jets have not used high picks on the OL since Mangold and Ferguson (with the glaring exception of Ducasse, unfortunately), or signed anybody good after Woody and Faneca. Where does Callahan fit in when we assess the roster moves that were good in the past, and so mediocre of late? We don't really know. But...

Until proven innocent, this not being a court of law, I think Callahan has to be in the mix of blame sharing for this state of affairs.

Ryan? Let me get back on that one.

 

There isn't anyone to blame. We built our team to make a run the last 2 years we did and fell short. We traded lots of draft picks for big names and drafted poorly at the top of our draft a couple of times. We took our shot and fell 2 games short.

 

The defense gave up a whopping 13 points monday night. They held Baltionre to 2.8 yards a caryy and 4.7 yards perpassing attempt. No they are not perfect and the front 7 needs help outside, but this is not the area thats killing us.

The Oline is a cluster fuck. Losing our center and his top backup has killed them and exposed Slauson as very meidcore. Ducasse is beyond dreadful as a fill in and Baxter has been overmatched. Our Oline deptp past Turner is very poor and its showing badly right now. There are no running lanes and our QB is getting killed out there. Untill that is fixed this team is going no where.

If I had to place blame, it goes to Tanny for the lack of good Oline depth, Callahan can not make shitty linemen great. Scotty's offense is still a fucking mess. We need him out of here to step forward. How the hell are we not running more max protect when our QB is getting killed. In game adjustments are lacking big time on offense. No matter what you think of your game plan, if its not working it has to change and fast. His does not change till the 4th quarter at best.

 

I disagree with the idea that we fell short and we were inevitably screwed as a result. There was talent out there on the offensive line in free agency and we ignored it, giving Wayne Hunter a 4 year 12 million dollar deal instead. That was an error in judgment on the part of the coaching staff and GM because he's clearly not a starting RT at this point.

Andre Gurode sat on the market for 5 days after Dallas cut him until the Ravens signed him. He was definitely better than Matt Slauson at LG and would have been Mangold's backup in the event of an injury.

Signing Plaxico Burress and Derrick Mason while we let Braylon Edwards walk was almost guaranteed to be a flat move in the end. The future value in those moves was decidedly negative. We walked ourselves into a narrower window when we made them.

I'm starting to think that Tannenbaum has no plan beyond the next season for most of his moves. He doesn't make fundamentally wise decisions he chooses to make very spikey ones trying to get maximum short term impact. In that context the Jets are slowly degrading year over year as the assets that he started with decline and the future value of his moves declines alongside them.

 

Yup, that's it right there.

Nobody needs to get fired over a really bad two game stretch, but they've obviously gotta improve. That's gotta start at the top--with Ryan and Tannenbaum.

 

I think the two ppl that should be on the hot seat is Tannenbaum and Schotty. (Schotty shouldn't even have a seat)

I agree with previous posters in assesing Tannenbaum. He is pretty good but he's become a bit cocky and overrated. We didnt address any of the major problems we had last year. Our safety play was poor last year. It still is. We didn't have lineman who put any pressure on the QB. We still don't. We didn't have a capable backup QB. Still the case. (Sorry,I'm not sold on McElroy. Sure he's tough but he has no arm strength). Guys were getting old and/or injured on the O-line last year. We didn't replace them. We clearly took a step back receiver wise. (Even though I didn't think Mason would be this mediocre).I got ridiculed for saying this before the season but my question still remains: What moves did we make to get BETTER? We made lateral moves to stay the same. Some moves, or the lack there of, made us worse. What did we do to get BETTER at a position? That being said, Tanny has made some great moves in the past that bolster his resume' and save him from exile....for now.

Schottenheimer, on the other hand, deserves no such reprieve. He has been consistently AWFUL. His supporters are hanging their hat on the success of the team, not on him individually. It's the same "lucky shirt" theory that's going on with the Redskins. Just because we win games, and he's the coordinator, doesn't mean he's helped to win us those games. Just because Grossman is the QB and the Foreskins are 3-1, doesn't mean he doesnt suck.

Schottenheimer is too reactive. He's never proactive. We never make defenses adjust to us. He doesn't understand down and distance. He's rarely creative, and when he is, it's usually foolish. Talented players go to waste on offense under him. He also doesn't understand how to run an offense when theres pressure on the QB. I can't begin to understand why some ppl still want him here.

My only problem with Rex Ryan has nothing to do with his play calling. I think he's a defensive mastermind. I just feel like he still behaves like a coordinator and not a head coach. Only those within the organization truly know how much power he has. Regardless of that, if he values his team and his job, he HAS to make more of a fuss when it comes to moves being made. No way you can continue to have things like Schotty @ coordinator and Eric Smith at safety and expect to live up to the lofty goals you expect of your team.

I hate hindsight heroes, who come out of the woodworks after losses, so I won't bandwagon with those ppl. We are a good team still. We just HAVE to start trying to get better because the teams like Baltimore and NE, that were neck and neck with us last year, did things to help improve themselves this off season.

 

Look if we had made it out of the final round one of the last 2 years Tannenbaum would have looked brilliant. Many teams built for the long run and fall short. The lack of depth and the money tied up in a few positions are catching up to us. We have also missed on some high draft picks, it happens.

In the end if they don't get it fixed we will start again down the line. No different than every other team in the NFL.

 

Ok, but from the standpoint of trying to do what you think they tried to do did it make any sense at all to trade up for a rookie QB who started only one year in college?

I just think the disconnects in Tannenbaum's strategy are too wide at this point to be completely ignored. If the Jets really were going for a short window as you say then they should have done whatever they had to do to get Jay Cutler or Donovan McNabb or Matt Hasselback in here to run the team for the two years.

Making all of the moves to aim at 2009 and 2010 and then getting a raw rookie to run the offense just made no sense at all.

I think the concept that makes more sense is that Tannenbaum has acted like a gambler with a shrinking bank roll, doubling down over and over again to try to get the big win without thinking about what things are actually going to look like a year down the road if he craps out now.

 

I can't blame him for going for Sanchez over anyone of those 3. I was a big supporter of getting Cutler but he seems to have a .10 head and it would have cost us more to get him. McNabb is done and Hasselback wasn't available at the time.

We took our shot came up a little short. At the end of the day they either get the ship going forward or they all get fired and we start again.