400 some odd yards is fine and all, don't get me wrong but the offense left too many points on the field and it's been a common theme during his tenure here as the offensive coordinator. Yes, the DEFENSE blew the fucking game, but it would be nice for our offense to be able to compete in a shootout if needed.
He can of course redeem himself. I... have decided to stop bitching about play calls or designs or whatsoever. I will just concern myself with the end result, nothing else. Rex Ryan's defense is usually stellar - this year is an aberration, triggered by the short off season, I would guess. Look at how his defense has performed during his days at B'more as DC, and his two brief years at the Jets as HC. They were usually well within top 5, if not top 3. Now, I will lay off a little bit on Schottenheimer, as I know for a fact that he will just never match the defensive prowess that Rex Ryan exhibits. If Jets offense ranks within top 10, and scoring within top 10, then that will settle it. Preferably around 6th in offensive scoring - that would be my barometer. Look. Chan Gailey made a chicken soup out of chicken shit when he promoted Ryan Fitzpatrick to his starting QB last year. They never worked together - and Fitzpatrick threw more TD passes in less game than Sanchez did. I am not trying to crown Chan Gailey as the offensive genius of our age (he is not - he is still a dumb fuck in my book) but if he could work with a QB with no prior experience, what excuse does Schottenheimer has? Remember, none of his QBs were 7th rounder that Fitzpatrick guy is.
You disagree? Give a take. No OL caused the run game to lag. No OL hurried Sanchez's throws. Jets had 450 yards, when the OL collapses on 90% of the snaps, that's not bad production. The Jets hadn't been dominated at the LOS like that since 2007. This one's on the run D, and that Cro turnover was a backbreaker.
Yeah he could admit that his basic scheme is mediocre at best and does not produce the kind of results that justify trying to run it. He could tear the whole thing up and start over and try to come up with something that actually wins games for the Jets instead of just being a placeholder that waits for the defense to win or lose the game. The thing that drives me nuts about Schotty and his offense is that there are only 32 NFL offensive coordinator jobs in the word. What exactly has he done to deserve holding on to one of them for a half decade plus at this point? I understand that you give a guy a few years to settle in but we're past that point now. The guy was hired with Eric Mangini and has had the benefit of a lot of draft picks spent on his side of the ball and a lot of trades made to make his offense go. Despite the heavy attention his personnel has received nothing has really clicked and we're looking for all the world like another mediocre season on his side of the ball. Yeah Sanchez hasn't clicked well in this offense yet but then again who has? Who exactly has this offense helped? Chad got run out of town after having his worst full season in it. Favre never really ran it anyway but he certainly wasn't interested in a second shot here. Sanchez has made some strides but the design is clearly holding him back, being far too complicated for him to run well and setting him up to fail on a regular basis. Why exactly is it that we need Brian Schottenheimer's offensive schemes on the Jets? Can anybody explain what he brings to the table that is so compelling that the rest of the team should conform to what he wants to do instead of having the talent dictate the scheme? It's just maddening at times to watch the Jets yet again have a piece that is out of sync and so an opportunity goes by without resolution.
There is no denying that he has done a piss poor job. And I keep going back to that AFC championship game against the Steelers. He has shown numerous times that he can't get the job done, but that goal lie sequence against the Steelers was the pinnacle of his "illustrious" career here. He's a terrible coordinator, and will continue to disappoint us. He's had way too many chances.
Jets lost to the Steelers because the Defense decided to play only one half of football. Also, when the offense needed the ball one last time the defense failed to deliver. Both years that the Jets were eliminated in the AFCCG, it wasn't the offense that failed.
What kills me is this: When you watch a Patriots game you often see a defensive player injured maybe limping or taken out of the game... then BAM!!!!!!! It's as if the booth radios to BB and the OC and they radio to Brady and they find that weakness and BAM WHAM KAZZAM... they Feast ont hat weakness within seconds.... The Jets... How many times do we face a defense with extreme weaknesses and the Jets come out and almost do the opposite of conventional wisdom as if they are smarter than the average bear.... We play a team with CB's taken from off the street, the game starts and 2 more CB's go down and our offense will try to run the ball more and target Holmes 3 times all game... IS IT SANCHEZ.. Can Sanchez not even pick on and Kill a Street FA CB consistently over the top? Man, part of me thinks Sanchez is just another guy and not taking Freeman is going to sting. Are there any "Experts" out there holding out hope that Sanchez can be ELITE and can one day be better than a game manager... Sheesh.
Sanchez does not call the plays. When Sanchez has had to be money, he plays at an elite level, in terms of 4th qtr comebacks, game winning drives and Playoff performance.
Alio, It's hard to have a discussion here on the merits with all the background noise of the irrational Schotty Haters, but on the bolded points: Callahan. I am sure he knows a lot of football. But I have seen him as a classic case of the Peter Principle from his over his head days as HC for the Raiders, followed by his abject failure in Nebraska. A pro level positions coach? Maybe I thought that's a good level for him, and he has, for the most part, done well as the OL coach. You are right, however, that he needs to answer for Hunter's play this year. Callahan was the one who said the Jets would be fine, at least on the same level as with Woody, putting Hunter in there. Now I don't want to shitcan Callahan for misjuding one player, but we don't have to stop there. Because Hunter is obviously not the only problem on the OL. Imo Slauson has yet to show any improvement over last year, too. But the main part is concededly a complex issue, that being who is responsible for not having beefed up the OL bench more? The FO? Ryan? Callahan? Woody Johnson? I don't know. But overall, let's put it this way - I don't exactly feel from this year so far that I was wrong to doubt all those, and there were many, who wanted Bill to replace Schotty as OC. LT - yes, it was an oversight on my part here, which I mentioned on another thread, not to include LT with Revis in having a pretty much mistake free and great game. Holmes and Burress. In hindsight I should have been more clear here. I think the main problem, from watching the game, is that Sanchez for whatever reason tends not to throw to his wideouts when going through his progressions. My point about BS is that you would think the OC has to do something to address that. But my guess is it is primarily a problem with Sanchez. Other points - the Sanchez INT was awful. It was different than your garden variety INT. I am amazed there are many here who can't see just how bad it was. I also agree with your post from earlier, that people here can't understand why the JEts do not play more hurry up, and that is almost certainly on Ryan, as the hurry up does not fit with a defensive oriented team and approach.
Good point... We're facing a team this week that picked up a Center/guard and a Tackle off the scrap heap right before the season... RIGHT THERE might be the difference in this season between the Jets and Ravens. Did the Jets know early that Woody was gone? I forget when he retired - bastard.
One what? Sorry, I'm just not sure what you're referring to. Exactly. People don't look at the fact that we used more screens, play-action, and Sanchez rolling out to make up for an OLine that couldn't have stopped a paper cut from bleeding. But that wasn't Schotty. That was Mark being dreamy. Bingo. Right. Who left the points on the field though? Could it have been the QB who threw an atrocious INT into the endzone, while within field goal range, on the first play of the drive? Or was the offensive coordinator who was standing on the sidelines? This is the point I've been trying to make. Sanchez isn't elite, and I doubt he ever will be. That doesn't necessarily excuse the playcalling though. The question remains, with so many weapons, is it that Schotty isn't calling for the passes to go to the guys with the mismatch, or is it Sanchez not looking for the guys who have it? Callahan has surely forgotten more football than I'll ever know. That said, at some point, he has to start taking responsibility for the lack of production from his unit. If the unit suffers from lack of quality, it's on him to have it addressed. In fairness to him, losing Mangold is the type of thing no team is going to be able to fully compensate for. However, the line wasn't exactly brilliant before Nick went down. Obviously, losing Turner, Woody, and Mangold is a lot, and I'm not going to hold that against him, but he campaigned for Hunter, and he's responsible for getting Ducasse at least serviceable for this type of situation. You also mentioned Slauson who isn't exactly impressive either. All that said, I'm not very down on Callahan. My knocking of him is more to prove the point that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. People may want Schotty gone, but for all the crap they give him, can anyone honestly say the overall offense during his tenure has been matched by any unit going back at least as far as when Vinny was QB? No problem. I didn't think it was an intentional omission. I just feel LT deserves credit for being one of the few who played very well. This actually spotlights the main reason I'm quicker to point a finger at Sanchez now than Schotty. We know Mark doesn't listen to his coaches. He's been told how many times to throw the ball away when a play breaks down? Yet he threw that INT trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. He's been told to baseball slide, to the point where he had a baseball coach teach him, yet he dives head-first into the end zone. He's been told to not give away his targets with his eyes, hell even opposing defenders have said it out loud, yet he continues to look down his targets. Yet it's Schottenheimer's fault that Mark isn't throwing to his receivers? Sorry, but I have to give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who isn't the one ignoring all of the instructions given to him. I know. On a play where he could have run out of bounds or at least threw it there, he threw it right into thick coverage. Somehow that's not his own fault though. The first play of a drive that began within sure FG range. I don't get it. We're supposed to be "ground and pound" yet everyone wants to run a quick-strike style offense. With a defense that looks winded when it gets rest.
Schotty blows, and anyone that defends him is named Marty. I respect you defending your son, but come on. :up:
Ftr I am also not saying I think Callahan should go or anything like that. It's just that we need to remember his responsibility for the state of the OL if and when, as is likely, at least in the upcoming off season if not before then, that the irrational Schotty haters (really a redundant term) are calling for his head again, and the question comes up who should replace him. Hey it would be great if Callahan were an upgrade. I'd have been for that all along if I thought that were the case. But I know his history, and he's just not as great as wishful thinkers here would like to believe he is. About Sanchez, that's a whole other story. I have been reluctant to dump on him since he's clearly better than Chad. At least he can throw the ball downfield. In truth it was such a relief for me to see Chad go, I would have given anybody a long honeymoon period coming in there. But it's been evident for some time now that Sanchez is not all that smart, is not about to develop into a top NFL Qb any time soon, and is someone who any coaching staff is going to have to work with his limitations. Which as you point out is only made more difficult by his not listening to his coaches. My guess is much if not almost all of the Schotty hatred here is coming from people who don't want to admit the true extent of Sanchez's problems and the situation that puts the club in. Oh well...
I'm not totally anti-Callahan, but he's clearly a big possibility of the grass looking greener on the other side. People forget that after the Raiders' Super Bowl appearance he was fired after Gannon publicly called him and his OC out for having a terrible system. I don't know that we can say Sanchez is better than Chad. Physically, sure. Sanchez has a respectable (but not great) arm and is much more mobile. He's also clearly better equiped to take a hit than Pennington. However, Chad was a superior QB. Had he been able to stay healthy, his precision in the passing game and incredible mind for the game were tools that would have made him a better NFL QB than Mark. I wouldn't say Sanchez isn't smart. I actually think he's a fantastic student. His problem is forgetfulness and overthinking. He doesn't learn from mistakes and repeats them, and he spends far too much time trying to read rather than react. If the game would just slow down for Sanchez, he'd be a great QB. I'm just not sure it ever will. Exactly. It's far easier to point a finger at Schottenheimer than admit that Chad was being held together with duct tape, Brett Favre was just a country hick who was already washed up, and Sanchez is probably not Joe Willy Jr. It's always easier to blame coaches when things go wrong. It's always easy to credit players when things go right.
Just curious, but what is your excuse then for the FACTS that Chad Pennington had arguably his best season the year after leaving Shottenheimer's offense? Or that the next year, the "washed up hick" had the highest QB rating of his career, throwing for 33 TD and 4200 yards. Weird... He was only washed up in 08. Not in 07 when he had the 3rd highest QB rating of his career, and not in 09 when he had the highest. Just washed up when he was working with Shottenheimer.. weird how that works.
You keep telling me about 1 game when the problems have been over 5 years long with 4 different QBs :rofl: Even longer when you add Rivers and Bress in Diego :rofl: Pennington MVP when he leaves this shitheads offensive genius :rofl: Favre back to being elite after he leaves this mind boggling madness :rofl: But forget about all that... let's get a new QB project for our franchise coordinator :rofl:
If Rex Ryan had any idea of how to run an offensive football team, Schotty would have been fired a long time ago.
Like I said in my original post, I'm not a big Schott supporter. In fact, I rip him several times in this very thread near the start. However, I thought hes done a good job the past two seasons with a developing QB. Your first retort was in response to my saying I had no problems with the offense @Oakland sans the OL. So, in response, I explained why I thought that way. Because, you know, we were discussing Week 3 @Oakland. So instead of veering off topic, tell us all how you would have coordinated our offense with the OL getting thrown back 5 yards on every play. :rofl:
