Geez, quoting junc. Why bother? The notion that we can't look at parts of the game with concern because it was a win is ridiculous. I suppose we should not be concerned about Mangold's injury since, after all, the Jets did beat the Jags.
I had problems with the play-calls yesterday. The runs were mostly straight up the middle between the guards with a few exceptions and the one reverse to Cro. The third down passing plays were mostly still stacking a couple of receivers in a narrow slice of the field so that Sanchez didn't have to look around a lot and predictably he got picked when he threw at three defenders all within 15 yards of each other. Schotty is not learning how to call plays for Mark Sanchez to be successful. He isn't using Shonn Greene particularly well either. The Jets have one of the best receivers in the game in Santonio Holmes and they're not using him to his full capability either. The only people that are playing to their capabilities in this scheme are LaDainian Tomlinson and Dustin Keller. You can't go up against good defenses and expect to win off of dump-offs to your back and quick hitters up the right seam to the tightend. Th Jets could really use a change right now in the offensive scheme. We're headed for a nasty fall if watching Sanchez dump the ball off to LaDainian Tomlinson and throw quick hitters to Keller up the right seam are the only things that are going to work consistently. The offense needs to get spread out some. You can line up two or three people wide on the left side of the field but please don't have two of them within 10 yards of each other on that side when Sanchez has to let the ball go under pressure. A play designed like that is effectively a broken play given what we know about Mark Sanchez at this point. Why is Greene pounding it up the middle when his best runs have been off tackle? Watching Greene bounce outside and run over a cornerback was a thing of beauty in 2009. Where has that gone? Yes, there's no Thomas Jones around to take the majority of the gut carries now but having Greene put in that role when he's a big flyer is a waste of talent. What happened to putting one big threat on the left side and forcing the defense to put two players over there or suffer the consequences? Plaxico Burress is at least as dangerous as Braylon Edwards was. The Jets lived off of Edwards taking two guys or catching a mid-to-deep pass last year on that side. Sanchez interceptions were down because he wasn't throwing into a crowd on the left side most of the time. I've been watching Jets QB's for a long time now and nobody has had the potential that Sanchez does to be a game-breaker. He just needs to have an offensive scheme that is not crippling him on regular basis.
That is what I've been saying now. If we don't get Schotty out at the end of the year he might coach everything out of Sanchez. Everything that is great about Sanchez was on display in his Rose Bowl, and is why we traded up to get him. Rex did not trade up so we can have a "game manager"
Hunter angered me yesterday. Not only was he awful, but he was constantly laughing about it when the camera caught him! I'm pretty sure Mark wasn't laughing. As a running back, LT's days are all but done. As a pass-catching threat out of the backfield though, he's still very effective. Yesterday was a perfect opportunity to see what McKnight could do with the first team, but they only put him in for garbage time. That was disappointing. Greene is not that good. I said last week that he's Thomas Jones Jr. I couldn't read the article (behind a paywall) but Bob Glauber wrote about why Greene is probably not the answer before yesterday's game. Some other things to keep in mind about the run blocking are that we have TEs that catch more than block, and we lost Edwards. Without a back who can break a big run on his own, our running game is going to be awful. That doesn't bode well for Sanchez. I disagree that people shouldn't complain. There was a lot to complain about in yesterday's game. Against any team of any quality we don't roll like that. Jacksonville is awful. That said, nitpicking a couple of plays (such as the Cromartie reverse) is utterly ridiculous in a blowout win that overcomes a large number of mistakes. Exactly. I'm glad someone else sees it! :beer: ------------- A couple of other thoughts: 1) Even beyond the loss of Mangold, the play of the line is disturbing. Everyone's favorite Schotty successor is in charge of that unit. Callahan is also the primary reason Hunter is a starter right now too. 2) I don't see anyone in this thread giving Schotty credit for designing a fantastic opening drive that lead to the precious first quarter TD everyone has been demanding for so long.
Sanchez got picked off for a simple reason, he still has no idea how not to telegraph his throws. My wife, who never watches games, watched yesterday and asked me "Why is he staring right at the guy he's going to throw to for so long?" If my wife can see it, professional defensive backs in the NFL, even the worst of them, are going to see it. They're also going to jump on it. People need to start waking up to the idea that maybe Sanchez isn't (and may never be) an elite QB. He's not? Really? Could it be at all possible that maybe Schotty can't call some plays because Sanchez just can't execute them? (And the chances are even worse when he has less protection.) Or maybe Greene just doesn't play particularly well? I can get on board with this argument. Whenever Holmes gets an opportunity he makes things happen, so I can't see anything wrong on his end. The only possiblity is the coverage. I don't pay attention to how he's being covered, so it's possible Sanchez isn't comfortable throwing to him in coverage. To be honest, I'm not comfortable with Sanchez throwing into coverage. As long as things work why change them? If they move coverage to double Keller then that will leave someone else open, so you change when they adjust, not before simply for the sake of doing it. The SNY crew was talking about Keller on the postgame. Basically it came down to Moore being brought in to advise on the offense. Moore had Peyton Manning throwing to a pretty decent TE. If a TE can be a playmaker, you let him make plays. I can't necessarily argue here. We do allow a lot of bunched up coverage. Is that to compensate for Mark's habitual stare-down-check-down though? If he's starting down his target but there are multiple targets in the same area then it's a little more disguised. The point is, perhaps Schotty is masking Sanchez's shortcomings more than anyone is willing to acknowledge. We don't know. I don't know that Greene is the kind of back who can bounce outside all the time. I don't think it would hurt to find out though. I can certainly agree that what he's doing up the middle isn't working. I would attribute the issues with Sanchez not throwing to Burress to a couple of factors. 1) With the short camp (and Burress' subsequent hobbling early in camp) Sanchez has had limited time to work with him and gain a rapport. 2) As Burress said in the postgame, the Jags sent out a completely different coverage from what the Jets expected. He wasn't surprised he didn't get thrown to. (So Schotty did adjust, contrary to popular opinion.) I definitely disagree here. Vinny, as much as I disliked him, had more ability to be a game-breaker. Like Sanchez though, he had a penchant for throwing to the wrong color jersey.
being honest it wasn't something i noticed until you pointed it out earlier in the week. went back and watched week one, and focused on shonn on first down runs this week.... sure enough, you were spot on. its a completely different running style than he was doing when we, myself included, were all "HOLY SHIT he's our running back" in the post season.
Alio, Along with some of the players playing better than last year, like Pace, Thomas, Kyle Wilson and even Bart Scott, and new players like Wilkerson who seem to be doing well, there are a few who are frankly a disappointment. Like Greene and Hunter. I haven't focused so much on the rest of the OL player by player, but as in my previous post you referred to, the OL as a whole is definitely weaker than it has been. And LT certainly does not look like he will be contributing to the running game. Does that mean the Jets' rushing attack will suck? Yikes, maybe. Nice comment about Callahan, btw. It will not be admitted by the Schotty haters, though. They still think Callahan should be the OC.
If the intent of the disastrous clusters of receivers on the left side on passing downs is to disguise who Sanchez is throwing too then Schotty's definitely committing malpractice at this point. You get three defenders in the vicinity of a Mark Sanchez pass and there's a very good chance it's going to wind up in their hands or bouncing off of them. We've seen this over and over again. So here are a few questions I have about the playcalling after two games this season: 1. Why are the Jets never stretching the defense with a deep post pattern up the right hash or over the middle? This goes back years now. Schotty hates throwing the ball deep except on a sideline pattern. The Jets NEVER throw the ball deep up the middle of the field. That lets the safeties cheat short or outside and leads to clusters of defenders where the ball winds up. I understood the issue when Chad Pennington was the QB. Even though he actually threw a fairly good ball on the rare occasions that the Jets aired one out on a post pattern it seemed as though he was more likely to put a floater up there. With Sanchez this should be happening at least once or twice a game because he definitely has the arm to throw one 45-50 yards down the field with some mustard on it. 2. Why are the Jets not running traps and sweeps at all? The Jets running game is about as vanilla as you can get right now. A few trick plays here and there to stretch the defense out but basically the vast majority of the Jets runs are attacking the middle of the opposing defense straight up. This is not going to work against the Pats and the Ravens or against any good run defense. Maybe we got spoiled watching Kevin Mawae pull out to lead sweeps and off tackle plays. Still the fact that the Jets basically leave the edges alone makes their rushing game much easier to shut down. Did the wildcat cause Schotty to abandon a varied rushing attack, since he could always put Brad Smith out there for options and off tackle runs? If so the Jets need to get back to making the defense work across the entire line of scrimmage on rushing plays or the results are going to be really ugly. 3. What happened to play action? Sanchez used to be really good at disguising play action. Lately the use of PA seems almost perfunctory on his part and in the offense as a whole. I guess the PA goes away when you need to keep a back in to pass block, still it was very effective as a way to freeze the linebackers and so far this season it's been much less so. 4. So Plaxico disappeared last game because he was being double-covered. Why did Holmes get only 4 targets and Mason only 2? Mason said something about the Jags being in a completely different coverage scheme than the Jets had anticipated. How different could it have been to keep the Jets from adapting and finding a way to get one of the receivers involved? Again, if the Jets passing offense this year is Dustin Keller and LaDainian Tomlinson we're already hopelessly screwed. A good NFL offensive coordinator would have taken the Jags game plan to shut down a 34 year old WR and made them pay with Holmes and Mason and Keller. If the Jags were in a nickel more often than it looked like they were and that's why the passing game was so constrained then why was the rushing attack so flat? Something just doesn't add up. Once again we're looking at an underachieving Jets offense - the fourth in six seasons since Schotty got here and 2006 was no picnic, the Jets just had a weak schedule to go against and so they looked better than they should have been. Look at where the Jets offense is now. Look at where it was last year. Look at 2009. Look at 2007. Look at 2006. The only year the Jets offense clicked was the one where Brett Favre brought his traveling circus to town and basically ran the GB WCO with a few minor alterations. The man came into town a month before the season started. He wasn't running Schotty's offense, he was running something that he knew worked. I understand Dick LeBeau as the Steeler's defensive coordinator forever. His defenses are really good. Now and then an off year but they are top 10 most of the time. I understand Marty Morhinweg as Eagle's offensive coordinator for his 6th season now. His teams have scored 400+ points 3 times in 5 years and got to 398 also. What exactly has Brian Schottenheimer done to deserve his tenured status as Jet's offensive coordinator? His offenses have been in the middle of the pack every year except for the Favre season. Other than that season his offenses haven't done anything to distinguish themselves. Does a good NFL team reward mediocrity in this manner or are the Jets just blinded by the fact that he's been here so long and things haven't totally fallen apart in that span? I have nothing personal against Brian Schottenheimer. I'm actually disposed to favor thinkers who try innovative things. I think they add real value to the things they attempt. I'm against his results, which so far give me no reason to believe that he's effective as an offensive coordinator. If the best the Jets can do is middle of the pack then they should be trying new people out until they find somebody who really adds value on offense. You don't get ahead by rewarding average results.
All I have to say about our Offense is this: QB's come and go along with RB's WR's and OL yet our offense remains the same. What is the one thing that has been the one constant the last 5 years? hmmmm...... Oh yeah it's our shit for brains OC. Anyone ever notice how when Mark runs the 2 minute offense and Schotty's role is reduced , our QB becomes very good? I hope Tom Moore instills the confidence to call his own plays that he gave Peyton to Mark to start calling plays. Let's save 2 million per year and get rid of Schotty.
Ahem. As a certified Schotty hater, I can guarantee you, not every Schotty hater wants Callahan as the successor at OC. (I am on of those haters.)
Just fucking wow. Whatever meds these are...stay on'em :wink: Except for the Play action, great post. Watch the Pats. 3 seconds and out. Watch the Jets. When Mark is 3 secs. and out they are unstoppable. Schotty....'well, we don't want to rely on that kind of offense.' we like our QB to take his lumps. Perfect example was Chargers/NE. We are built to run NE's offense, but stick with SD.
Where did you go for 11 months? Welcome back. PA did happen last game a few times, but the OL went to hell after Mangold's injury and its tough to do PA when the QB has no time. The last time the seam was used like that Favre was the QB. It hasn't returned, and my guess is no one in comfortable with that throw? I don't know. And hobbes makes a decent point, the route philosophy should be more like NE. But alas, Sanchez isn't Tom Brady. Brady makes that offense work.
And that could be because the OL just isn't as good with Woody gone. In any event I say give LT another shot as the starter and see what happens. He won't be any worse and maybe that will light a file under Greene's ass just like it did last year.
The bottom line and the root of all the problems is the predictable play calling on first down. The Jets are still running the ball almost 70% of the time on first down into to the teeth of 8 men fronts. Not only does this make it hard for the running game, but it puts pressure on Sanchez to make plays on 2nd and 3rd and long. I know it sounds overly simplistic, but if the Jets pass more on first down, I think the offense will open up. This has been a pattern for years. Sanchez has had success this year and in the past throwing on first down, but Schotty insists on run after run after run.
tom brady is still one of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game, but that production is a combination of scheme and qb. im not gonna say mark can be tom brady, but hes no mat cassel
I don't think Sanchez can be a Tom Brady but the kid has heart and a ton of talent. Most of all, he's a winner that will do whatever it takes to get the win. Schotty needs to spread the field better in the passing game. I'm tired of seeing 2 or 3 receivers in the same area.
