That's why I still think 1998 was the best shot we ever had, minus the Super Bowl year of course. You can make a case for the 1986 team or last year's but that 1998 team was steamrolling all the way from November to the AFC Championship game.
There are rumblings we will be wearing those throwbacks for a game or 2 as early as this season. '98 was the best team start to finish we have had. Not the most talented but one of the greatest coaching staffs in NFL history. I don't think we were better than Indy 2 years ago, i think we were better than Denver in 1998 despite winning 2 less games. That one still stings just like the Pitt loss will b/c I thionk we were better than Pitt too. I had such a bad feeling seeing the team lifeless in pregame. I was hoping I was reading too much into body language but unfortunately they looked lifeless when the game began.
Yea that Pittsburgh loss makes me sick, we were the better team by far and i'm confident we would have beaten the Packers in the Super Bowl. It makes me even more sick that the Ravens blew it to Pittsburgh in the divisionals, because I think we would have had a even better chance against the Ravens than the Steelers. Hell I know we would have beaten the Ravens and went to the Super Bowl. Flacco would have gotten owned by our defense...
For those of you guys who watched during the 80s how good was O'Brien? Was he a legit superstar or just above-average? Also, what were his best qualities as a QB?
I was in my early teens when Ken O'Brien was the QB, so these are my impressions more than any sort of statistical analysis. O'Brien was not a superstar, but he was a very good QB. Extremely accurate with a very strong arm. As smart a QB the Jets have ever had on the field, other than perhaps Chad Pennington (with a much stronger arm than Chad). Unfortunately, O'Brien didn't have the quickest release and didn't have the escapability of a Mark Sanchez, nor did he have anything approaching the quality of offensive line that the Jets have had the past few years. He was the anti-Richard Todd in the sense that he would rather sacrifice a newborn baby than risk an interception. So, while he waited for oreceivers to get in the clear, much of the time O'Brien could be found being enveloped and abused by the other teams' defenses in the pocket. Also, this was a different era in the NFL. QB's didn't have anything approaching the protection they have now, and O'Brien suffered physically for it. This said, I was way too young to ever see Joe Namath play, but I can say with confidence (in my opinion, of course) the Jets have never had as good a deep ball threat QB since Ken O'Brien was their quarterback.
This was the worst loss of any franchise I root for as a kid. I was a little too young to understand the Mud Bowl game, but I was 9 when I saw this and even then I knew blowing a 10 point lead that late was bad. Seeing Gastineau drill Kosar in the back makes me hate him all over again. Junc...I do remember us sucking toward the end of season, but considering we beat KC pretty easily with our backup QB the week before, and should have beaten a very good Browns team IN Cleveland, there's no telling what we could have done. I'll tell you one thing, no way the Giants would have wanted to lose to the Jets. I think they would have played a little tighter and we definitely had a better defense than the Broncos that year. Hell, it took a miracle for Denver to get to the SB anyway, as it was. Edit: Looking at the stats, Denver had a better team defense, but those stats are heavily influenced by the really shitty month of December we had.
Up until this years Steeler lose, the Browns game was the most Jet pain I endured. I still can't watch it without wincing. Man, that was bad and on top of it, I had to work 8pm-8am that night so I was up all night thinking about it. Games like this make you wonder if its worth the pain. It was that bad. That was TYPICAL JET
The AFC stunk, I don't think we would have had any chance against the Giants. If we were healthy and humming maybe but remember even in healthier years we faded down the stretch in most years under Walton. The best teams get better as the season progresses, we would have gotten throttled. The Giants crushed Denver and I don't even think they played one of their better games. I hate the giants more than any team so it is painful to type this but they were too good for us that year.
Yeah. For three months the Giants were like the Patriots of the early 2000s- they won a lot of close games. Then, in December and January the Giants began to become dominant. The Giants probably would have crushed any of the 5 AFC playoff teams in the Super Bowl.
The Mud Bowl and the '86 playoff game were the most painful losses in my experience but the latter was worse and the damage it inflicted upon me, despite my remaining an ardent fan thereafter, was definitely permanent.
fggrimes summed him up well--great arm, accurate, smart QB, tough as nails, great attitude, etc. His biggest flaw was he couldn't get out of his own way, so he was dependent on the O-line and running game. For that reason, as the team got old he wasn't able to lift them, he'd have some great games when the opponent didn't get pressure (usually against Miami or bad teams with no rush) but he became increasingly average as he got older. I only saw Namath at the end of his career when he couldn't move, so at that point he was no better than O'Brien. In my lifetime I think Vnny gave us the best QB play I've seen, Sanchez is closing in on that quickly, then I'd go with Chad (when healthy). O'Brien and Todd to me is basically a toss-up, both were good when the team was good around them, both struggled when it wasn't.
I'd rate Vinny '98 as by far the best season from a QB in my lifetime w/ Chad '02 in 2nd. I would say o'brien '85 comes in 3rd.
For single seasons, I agree. Interestingly both Vinny in 1998 and Chad in 2002 began the year as the backups. The 2002 team got on a similar roll with Chad but still had those patented, Jet "stub your toe" games which the 1998 team didn't have.
The '98 team had a couple of those games most notably losing to 3-13 Indy. 3 of our 4 losses were to bad teams(6-10 Baltimore, 4-12 SL and 3-13 Indy).
Yes but early in the year, not when we were going for playoff position. Once they got going, nothing stopped them, that's why it's the one time we had a bye instead of having to go the long route to the Super Bowl, another reason I think it was our best shot. A Sunday night road game at Miami followed by an early Saturday at Buffalo--both playoff teams--in December, won both to ice the division. Won a game big they didn't need vs New England to finish it off. You can make the case that Seattle was that game, but we survived it on Vinny's phantom TD although we probably deserved to lose. By the way--NFL Network loves that SF opening game, just about every Top 10 they do manages to incorporate that game somehow. I'm tired of seeing it, I know how it ends.
The Browns playoff game has it's own place in the mind of every Jets fan (along with the mud bowl and the Doug Brien game) who was alive in 1986 and watched the game. While it's true, as already mentioned earlier that the Jets were a beat up team and most likely would not have won in Denver the following week, this specific game highlighted what went wrong during the Walton regime and further illustrated the bad luck of the franchise since 1969 (and especially since the firing of Walt Michaels four years earlier). Despite being heavy underdogs (and injured) the Jets had enough talent to pretty much dominate the game for 56 minutes. They were somehow able to disguise a weak secondary with a pretty solid pass rush and had a late 10 point lead until a chain of Jetsonian events caused the wheels to fall off. The Gastineau late hit (the play most remembered by fans) may not have been even called had CB Carl Howard not followed through with a headshot a split second after Gastineau's hit. Penalties were a major problem under Walton. Then you had the atrocious coverage of the secondary during the last two drives (another weak spot under Walton). Then after O'Brien was tackled for no gain on 3rd down with a minute remaining and a 20-17 lead, Jennings placed a perfect punt inside the Browns ten yard line only to be called back because of a penalty (penalties were a major problem under Walton, too). And let's not forget Russell Carter's dropped INT on the play before the tying FG.....just a miserable, frustrating typical 1980s Jets playoff game....
I was there, I still have nightmares about Garrison Hearst running 98 yards through our defense. I was also in St Louis and met Rick Lyle's parents at the Gateway Arch. That was the worst game we played that season. They had a backup QB in Tony Banks and they torched us. Hard to imagine that Rams team went on to win the Super Bowl the very next season. I always wondered what would have happened if Parcells hadn't gotten rid of Glen Foley how different our season would have been in 99 when Vinny went down. He played fine in the 49er game and was awful in the Raven game. Again hard to imagine two years later that Ravens team won the SB.
