Jamarcus Russell as well. It's not that intangibles and hard work don't matter, it's just that there's not reliable information about it.
I stopped there and didn't read anything else. I am not a fan of comeback numbers. There are too many variables. With 4:14 to go, the team is down by 2 and then the defense makes an interception and returns it 30 yards. Now the offense takes over and has 1st and 10 at the opponents' 24 yard line. Four plays later- field goal. No additional scores are made in the game. The quarterback gets credit for a comeback victory. Then there are legit comebacks like when Frank Reich led Buffalo back against Houston in the playoffs. I know you dislike comeback totals too. Numerous times through the years I have seen you disregard comeback numbers on the basis of the QB in question sucking for 3 quarters and causing his team to fall behind in the first place. All that said, no matter how you want to look at comeback stats, I believe Sanchez would probably come out ahead at this point BUT then again, how often did his sucking for 3 quarters lead to the Jets falling behind in the first place? So, I mean, I don't know, comeback numbers, ehh. Give Sanchez the nod anyway. What the hell. I like both quarterbacks. Just think Freeman's a little better right now.
Actually we were not hearing that stuff about Leaf two years into his career as we are hearing it about Sanchez and Freeman. I was being sarcastic and it looks like you caught it. Also, in that post I was pointing out that I've heard the nice things said about Freeman from people outside the Buccaneers organization. Alas, I suppose you could say that almost all of it originates from One Buc Place anyway.
Very similar things may have been said about Freeman but Sanchez seems to be taking on more responsibilities in the offseason that most would expect reasonable of a young QB entering his 3rd season. For that matter, the first iteration of Jets West looked to be something beyond a player going into his 2nd year. We've all heard stories about QBs doing something special for their teammates in-season and working out with some WRs during the offseason but I don't this level of organization being implemented by such a young QB. As far as the work-ethic argument goes, Sanchez just seems to be doing more than Freeman. If you want to make a numbers argument of it: Freeman = take the checkdown Sanchez = risk-taker Sanchez's playing style doesn't lend itself to good numbers, at least not this early in his game.
I hate the comeback stat b/c if you are down a point enetering the 4th qtr it's considered a "comeback". Both Jet fans and Buc fans should be thrilled w/ their QB situations for the next decade.
I think until Freeman makes the postseason and wins games I'm gonna say Mark is the better QB. Freeman may have the better skill set but I think Sanchez's leadership ability would be better. The one thing about Mark that I think a lot of these writers ignore is play making ability, he made some huge throws and made some great escapes from pressure this past season that don't show up in the stat sheet (which is so cliche) but that should not be overlooked. Like I said in another post Sanchez has not only won games in the playoffs but he has played his best football in the playoffs. In 6 games his career numbers are better then many other current QB's through their 1st 6 games. 60.5% completion percentage 9TD's 3 INT's and a rating of 94.3% Now he only has 2 games over 200 yards passing but I'd attribute that more towards our style of play then his inability to throw the ball. I think he also played his 2 best games of his career against NE and then Pitt both in freezing temps and against very good teams.
I am sorry but this post is just plain ignorant. How much of Buccaneer football have you watched to make that assessment? Find an article on profootballfocus titled "Going deep". You will find an evidence that Freeman is anything but "take the checkdown" kinda QB. It isn't Gruden's offense here in Tampa. Also, tell me what additional responsibilities Sanchez has taken over Freeman? I wont pretend I know. Why don't you just admit you are comparing intangibles of a QB you know and one you don't know much about.
Yeah, he definitely throws the ball all over the field. He's not a dink and dunk guy. There were quite a large number of deep throws to Mike Williams last season. Freeman had a bad game vs Baltimore for three quarters but he made some huge throws late. If I recall correctly, that was the game where his receivers had some horrific drops which was reminiscent of the Jets receivers vs Green Bay.
Never said Freeman was afraid to go deep. From what I've seen he's been more apt to go for higher percentage throw than the gamble deep ball compared to Sanchez. Why would I - or anyone for that matter - try to make the point Freeman would be afraid to use his arm? Although I probably could have explained that better. Show me the articles where Freeman has been organizing offensive camps for his teammates during the lockout. Or the ones for his WRs and TEs after his rookie season. I wasn't referencing any abstract intangibles gleaned from pressers and interviews. I mentioned Jets West specifically because that was what I was referring to in that entire paragraph. Again, show me that Freeman is doing this and I'll say they are even in that regard.
I can't post links but this is from nfl dot com. Buccaneers quarterback Josh Freeman has taken charge during the NFL lockout by organizing his own player-only practices in Tampa. He made a special request of veteran tight end Kellen Winslow, who spent last offseason rehabbing in Southern California, to be present at the workouts and Winslow didn't hesitate. "There is no question he is the leader of this football team," Winslow told The Tampa Tribune this week. "He's the dude. I'm not leaving him. If it's my decision, I'm never leaving him. I want to play with him until he retires. I wouldn't want to play with anybody else." Freeman's daily workouts have brought in more than 30 Bucs, something coach Raheem Morris is thrilled about from a distance while forbidden from communicating with his players during the lockout. "I'm fired up for Freeman," Morris said. "That's the type of leader we brought here and I had no doubt in my mind he would be doing that type of thing. It's not shocking to me. It's kind of expected from the standpoint of business as usual for that guy." Freeman repeatedly brought his team back in tight games last season, throwing 25 touchdown passes and just six interceptions while guiding the Bucs to a 10-win campaign and narrowly missing the playoffs. Following his 2009 rookie season, Freeman made the decision to embrace his leadership role, according to The Tribune. He logged hours with Bucs coaches, watching film daily and learning the position. "I took it upon myself to have no reason not to be a leader," Freeman said. "I wanted to take that role upon myself. You have to step in and do the work. As a leader, you have to clean up your yard before you start talking about other people's yards. I made sure to have all my stuff in order. "I was hoping to put a good product on the field. Guys followed that. If I'm not playing good football or taking care of business, how can I be a leader? I just feel like it's my job as a quarterback to take care of business."
They are. Freeman in fact was one of the very first to organize these activities, a solid month before Drew Brees started it with his teammates. Of course, Freeman never chose to call a press conference and make it public like Brees or Ryan did. Nice to see you have taken back your previous statement that Sanchez is a better leader. I still do not follow your take on Freeman's risky throws. He had as many attempts of deep passes as Sanchez in 2010.
It just seems like when you start talking about work ethic, intelligence, intangibles, etc., you're broaching areas where we fans really have no idea what we're talking about. For instance, in a very unscientific study, googling "Mark Sanchez Work Ethic" and "Josh Freeman Work Ethic" returns very similar results. Not surprising, really. To be a successful QB, you have to have an excellent work ethic. Similarly, if you look up leadership, you find teammates and coaches commending each on that aspect. Both have organized unofficial training camps to get their teams prepared. Both have given their respective teams reason for optimism. They have been asked to different things and that certainly has an effect on how they're viewed. Mark has been asked to be a cog in a very good machine. Freeman was brought in as a savior to turn a franchise around. He's been asked to do more and has carried the team. Mark hasn't been asked to carry the team. That's certainly not his fault, just the way it is.
You tell me. You called Freeman prefers to throw checkdowns (safe passes) over Sanchez's risky-throws. What does it really mean? I look at the receptions of Bucs and Jets RBs and FBs and they are pretty much the same. Why not just admit that Freeman has been more accurate and has had better judgment with Football? That statement wont sound like someone pulled it out of their behind.
This is one hundred percent right. Saying Sanchez's intangibles and work ethic are better or worse than Matty Ice's/Stafford's/Freeman's/Brady's/Henne's is just a fool's errand; we hae no real data. The reason for optimism with Sanchez isn't that he organized off-season stuff-every QB did that. It's not that he works out hard-almost every QB does. The reason for optimism is that he's played great in big games, he's shown a fair amount of improvement, he's generally willing to stay within himself and within the game plan, and he has some athletic ability/ability to throw on the run and make a truly great play here or there (I'm thinking in particular of the big throw on the run that he made to Edwards against NE in the playoffs and the QB end around in the regular season against Pitt) which is exactly the kind of QB that you want if you're going to have a ball control offense-stifling defense.
Normally at this point I'd mention that I already said that using check-down instead of high percentage throws was a bad choice and that I tried to restate that using more accurate terms. I would then probably say that saying a quarterback goes for more high percentage throws than another is a blantant enough implication to anyone with a basic grasp of football and/or the English language that I alreday said that Sanchez's INT problems were the result of poor judgement (bad risks) and Freeman's fewer INTs were the result of better judgement(high percentage). However, given your desire to act indignant in every post and treat this thread as some political debate that holds the key to your senate election I have no other choice but to assume you are some kind super fan boy who somehow lacks the ability to realize that I already said that Freeman is more careful with the football twice. So instead of trying to reason with you any further, I'm just going to commit what is left of my faith and prayers to hoping for a firey death. Maybe something to do with a car crash.
