The Beltran comments are the stupidest, everyone knew he was going to get more than he was worth when they made the deal. He still had an MVP level year in 06 and the Mets almost made the World Series. But he took a called strike 3 so none of that matters. The saddest part is how many many Mets fans would agree with the Beltran stuff. I'm suprised he didn't go after the Santana deal too which was even more expensive and even more worthless for the team. The Reyes/Crawford comparison is kind of funny since they're both players that have been highly touted despite being barely better than league average offensively over the course of their careers and put up big numbers in their contract years. He definitely will get the huge contract too if he keeps hitting like he has so far.
In fact, everyone knew he got way more than he was worth at the time - the Mets were explicitly paying a premium to bring him in, since they were coming off a 3-year period where they had averaged 71 wins per season, and couldn't have gotten him otherwise. Signing Pedro and Beltran in 2005 made it possible to get Delgado in 2006. I would also say that if anything you've underrated Beltran's performance with the Mets - besides his MVP-caliber season in 2006, he also played at an All-Star level in 2007 and 2008, and was even better in 2009 for a half season until he got hurt. He can't run and field like he used to, but even this year he's been excellent at the plate. The idea that this is the deal Minaya needs to apologize for is absurd. To me the biggest reason why Wilpon is an idiot is that there is a very good chance that the Mets will want to trade Beltran (and maybe Reyes) in the next month or two, and talking them down can only reduce their value on the market. But hey, he also thinks that announcing that the team is going to lose $70 million this year is a good idea when he's trying to get someone to invest $200 million in the team at the same time: http://eye-on-baseball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/29532487[
Hahaha, they bought out Bonilla to fund more Madoff stuff and got stuck paying him forever. I love it.
I guess the positive to take out of this is that even if you're a complete fucking idiot you can still make a fortune in the real estate business with a little luck. Guy is an image obsessed douchebag of a Dodgers fan.
i loved cliff floyd but he was the bigger culprit for that 06 NLCS loss than beltran was. if wilpon was such a knowledgeable baseball man even he should acknowledge this. in addition, the mets are where they are right now not because of beltran striking out looking and not because they are cursed, but because of how he's run the team and who he and his faggot ass son have hired.
The Mets badly need a new owner, there should never be a time when a baseball team in NY with their own TV network and new stadium, not only is losing money but is being ran like the Kansas City Royals Only a moron with no common sense could fuck that up.
did some of you even bother reading the article before making yourselves look stupid? I'm talking to the people who said he threw Minaya under the bus.Wilpon was talking ABOUT HIMSELF. The article even specifically pointed that part out so there was no ambiguity. Also, jose reyes has been injured for more than half his career. His first two years were injury plagued and he missed 100+ games in each, then he had 4 years he was healthy. But the last 2 years he was 100% healthy (2007,2008) he was the leader of the CHOKE/collapse squad with his horrible numbers in august and september. He's missed a full season between 2009 and 2010. Completely unreliable, and not clutch. He's not worth a big contract. and his OBP isn't very good, i don't understand why people never point that out. I don't get some mets fans. As horrible, and as big as a joke as we have been, you guys still stuck up for these BUMS. Beltran, reyes....these guys optimize the joke of a team we've been the past half decade. The banana boat has to fuckin go. I know alderson will do the right thing and get rid of these bums
He's played in 682 games out of a possible 851 since his first season with the Mets. He's missed 20% of his games over that time. Tulo has missed 14% and Furcal 23%. Most high impact shortstops miss similar time to Reyes. What planet have you been living on? People bash his OBP all the time. Somehow, though, he scores 15% of the time he has a plate appearance, fourth among all active lead off hitters (behind Hanley Ramirez, Jeter, and Furcal). And second with how often he gets to second base or third base without anyone else advancing him (just over 14% - holy shit, imagine how many runs he would score if he had a decent line up behind him?! - compared to Jeter's 8%). His OBP is low, but he still gets to scoring position more than just about any other leadoff batter in the game. There is no one who can replace him as a batter from the shortstop position or as a leadoff hitter (except Hanley Ramirez, when he hits leadoff). It would be better if he had a higher OBP, but he doesn't need it to be a premier leadoff batter.
It was the writer who stated that Wilpon was speaking about himself; that statement IS very ambiguous, so who knows who he was actually referring to. Regardless of whether he was laying the blame on Minaya or the blame on himself, the overall outlook is that he's been running the organization in a shit manner. Lmao, he didn't miss 100 games his first 2 seasons. He played in 69 games in his 03 rookie season, but he was called up a day before his 20th birthday against the Rangers, on June 10th. He played the rest of the season in the bigs before injuring his ankle sliding into 2nd on the last day of august and missed the rest of September. He obviously couldn't have played in the first 60+ games of the season, because he wasn't in the bigs yet. Before he'd gotten called up he played 42 games in AAA Norfolk. He did not miss 100 games his first season. Jose has ALWAYS been criticized for his plate patience, especially when he first came up. He had something like 2 walks in his first 100 at bats, which would seemingly translate to 12 walks over a roughly 600 AB season lmao. It's been something he's been criticized about since he was still a prospect. It's never really been part of his game, and still, improvements being made in that area were both obvious and inevitable. Considering the type of hitter Jose is, any OBP he has which is roughly 50-60 points above his BA should be considered pretty successful, and any OBP above .350, while obviously not the best, is at the least a respectable clip. He's achieved both of these parameters in 06, 07, 08, the injury seasoned 09, and so far this season. I don't think anybody was actually advocating keeping Beltran. If anything some posters were just defending him as a player and against Wilpon's comments, because truth of the matter is he has been a good player for us. The point statjeff brought up was very true. We didn't overpay because we expected him to slug the ball the way he did in the 04 postseason hitting 8 HRs over that span. We had to overpay to bring him here not only because we were an unattractive destination because of all the losing at the time, but also because our main competitors for his signature were the Astros. Beltran loved his time in Houston and would very much have loved re-signing there, and at the time of his free agency one of the main things the Astros had going for them was that they had no state income tax, something which NY didn't offer. This was one of the biggest things Beltran had to consider in regards to signing in Houston or for the Mets. In order to guarantee Beltran the same amount of money he'd make in Houston, the Mets had to offer something like 12-13 million more than the Astros did to Beltran over the life of his contract, which is what they did. Anyhow, disregarding what they payed Beltran and why, Wilpon thinking that Beltran needed to justify that contract was a clown ass thing to expect. Over the course of his career Beltran was more or less a 30-30 type guy while being a true 5 tooler and playing sparkling defense, which is what he has given us for the majority of his contract. If Wilpon was stating that he's 65 to 70 percent of the slugger he seemed to be in the 04 postseason, then it's a very fair point. However, expecting him to slug the way he did during those playoffs was idiotic. Still, just so it isn't confused, I'm NOT against trading him at the deadline if there are takers.
Well, Fred apparently found his minority partner. I listened to his press conference on SNY for a while, and basically he wouldn't give any details on what he's going to get for his $200 million, but that it definitely doesn't include a piece of SNY or any say in how the team is run. The only way this makes any sense to me is if he's confident that the team is going to have to be sold, and he can either bid on it (possibly with first bidder rights) or make money when it is sold to someone else. He made his millions going short on Allied Capital and Lehman Brothers, so perhaps this is just going short on Fred Wilpon. http://danny-knobler.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/8590096/29589865
i agree that we had to overpay beltran to get him and change the culture. and it worked for a couple of years when we got Delgado. As far as reyes, IMHO there comes a point in time when you need to move on. He doesn't provide enough to justify a huge contract, and we're better off spending that money on power hitting/pitching. If someone is willing to give up prospects for him and we get rid of his salary, you have to do it. this team needs to be purged of almost all it's failure (ala the knicks) and stench from the previous regime to begin anew we need to give a chance to let Alderson build the team the way HE wants to build it. I made the knicks/mets analogy before the season even began, because he basically is similar to Donnie Walsh as far as experience, knowledge and respect from the league. Honestly, no team i follow has made me more sick than the Mets the past 5 years. The choking, the mental softness, the bad contracts, the way the organization is run...it's become almost impossible to root for them. I can't believe there are so many people resistant to completely blowing up the team. and this is coming from an islanders and knicks fan
I don't think the analogy between the NBA/MLB thing is something which really fits. Whereas the NBA is comprised of 12 man rosters usually employing 9-10 man rotations (and mainly 8-9 man rotations under the Knicks with D'Antoni at the helm), each individual performance has a larger accountability for the outcome for an NBA team than say for an MLB team with 25 man rosters. Blowing up an NBA franchise therefore may make sense if you want a culture change; it wouldn't really make sense for an MLB franchise because of the roster size. Problems could be found anywhere and they could be aplenty within a given team; keep what's useful and change the rest. it'd be incorrect to pinpoint Reyes as a culprit of the Mets' collapses when there were just so many problems with the roster during those years. for all the supposed slumping reyes or any of the other batters did late in the season during these past few years, in 07 it wasn't the hitting that let us down. we still managed to score a boatload of runs in many games down the stretch that year; what let us down was our pitching and our shit bullpen. Despite all this we still had a chance to at least force a one game playoff with the Phillies or even clinch the division with a win on the last game of the season in 07. All that separated us from this and from a collapse of epic proportions was a season finale in which Glavine let up 7 runs without recording a single out (yeah, we lost the game). Reyes didn't play well? He was still arguably our most important player that season and had it not been for our shit pitching performances we would have been in the playoffs. Reyes couldn't have been considered a problem that year; the obvious letdown was the pitching. In 08 Minaya constructed a shit fucking team, to say the least. We went into the season relying on fucking Ryan Church and Moises fucking Alou for our COF spots, we traded Lastings Milledge for Church and Schneider when at one point we could have traded him for a Manny Ramirez that could still hit, Minaya fucked around with signing Castillo to a quick contract by entertaining signing fucking David Eckstein and once that proved to be too expensive of a venture Minaya had to go back to Castillo, initially Castillo could have been had on a 2 year contract but when we decided to turn away from him and court Castillo he'd received 3 year offers from other teams and once Minaya was turned off by Eckstein's contract demands he was forced to go back to Castillo and had to overbid for him in result, signing an aging piece of shit to an albatross 4 year contract, we went into the season relying on an aging Delgado who provided NOTHING on the defensive side on the ball, our pitching and our bullpen let us down that year again, our pitching was SHIT castillo was shit delgado was shit schneider was shit castillo was shit church was alright but got concussions and turned to shit alou was shit and always fucking hurt, and he fucking peed on his hands. and still, we only lost the division by 3 games. reyes played well, we had a shit fucking roster that caused us to miss the playoffs. a similar block of shit could be spouted out for the 09 season as well. minaya could have gone for a solid, consistent pitcher in derek lowe but instead opted signing inconsistent erratic shit like oliver perez to a 3 year contract, he went into the year again going with uncertainty in BOTH fucking COF spots AGAIN he went in banking on ryan church and daniel murphy and even gary sheffield LMAO, all it took for minaya to assure castillo he'd still keep his job at 2nd after such a shit year in 08 was for castillo to come into his office crying and pleading that he'd change and he wanted to keep his job still LMAO and castillo was still shit and nothing how he used to be defensively, we went into the season relying on washed up carlos delgado at first AGAIN, we had tripe like schneider and santos playing catcher for us, and everyone got fucking injured we had amassed the highest amount of days on the DL in the entire fucking league blah blah blah. reyes got hurt, but there was so much fucking else wrong with that team. if reyes had been correctly managed by the mets staff and stayed healthy, he WOULD have produced like he usually does, and still it wouldn't have mattered cuz that roster was so shit. reyes is a special player and one of the only special home grown talents we've produced over the past decade, and when he plays he produces. he's a great catalyst and there aren't that many players like him around the league. there were so much freaking wrong with the players around him it'd be dumb and incorrect to hold him significantly accountable for anything that happened with those fucked up collapses/disappointments. If there wasn't so much shit on the team around him and if there weren't so many glaring holes in the weak dumbass fucking rosters produced by minaya during those years, we'd most likely have made the playoffs in 07 and 08. there were too many injuries in 09 to be able to tell anything. regardless of all this reyes produced and was quite obviously a useful player for us. no matter whether he slumped down the stretch or not wouldn't have mattered if the rest of the team wasn't comprised of such shit and if other aspects of the team didn't have such major, glaring weaknesses. reyes wasn't a problem, if the team around him wasn't so weak, we'd have made the playoffs with him. regarding all that big contract talk, yeah the 11 mil option picked up this year was kind of pricey, but the current contract he's on was actually a very friendly one towards the mets. regardless of the option this year his contract actually hasn't been fucking pricey at all. he signed a 4 year 23 million contract extension in 06. that is not in any way an extravagant contract for what reyes offered to the team. reyes wasn't one of the bad contracts. the way you talked about reyes not justifying what he's getting paid made it sound like reyes was being paid crawford money. anyhow regarding that idiotic fucking statement made by wilpon about how 'he's not going to get crawford type money', NOBODY was saying that he would get a crawford type contract. they haven't even fucking begun talking an extension yet, as sandy laid out a few aspects he wanted jose to improve on before working on any extension. and what's worse about this situation was that not only did wilpon's statement hurt Reyes' value, he put us in a situation where it most likely seems that we HAVE to trade him. Opposing GMs know all this and hoping that they offer something like 2 great prospects for reyes in any trade is doubtful and highly unlikely. wilpon's fucked the mets big with what he's done. if we wait out the year with reyes we may get 2 1st round picks for him as it's looking like he may be a type a free agent, and that's a better return than anything we'd get in a trade right now for Reyes due to Wilpon's comments........................
........................i kno this whole fucking post is a block of shit but in all reality i could have spouted out a bunch of more shit in those blocks regarding what was wrong with those poorly constructed teams. there were so many fucking things wrong with those 07-10 mets teams it wouldn't have mattered if reyes had put up MVP type seasons, we still had shit rosters with many fucking weaknesses. regardless of any of that reyes still played well and he is a great, special player. you keep a player like that and make sure you improve and have strength in all the areas of the team around him. there was no 1 player culprit for those collapses nor were there a certain select few players responsible, there were a bunch of holes all over that fucking roster, and reyes wasn't one of them. i think it's weird how you brought up reyes not being able to produce in important situations, when reality holds that in the most pressure packed situation the mets have been in the last 10 years, the 06 NLCS, Reyes was our best player for the series. Beltran had a great series too, Wagner and Heilman blew TWO important games during that series (games 2 and 7), trachsel put in an absolutely horrible pitching performance, and it was Beltran who was the culprit for initiating that long stretch of suckiness? Why do people not remember this shit? Wilpon is a fucking joke. sorry for all this shit. long story short, keep reyes as he's a special player, improve the shit around him, blowing up an entire roster isn't necessary for an MLB team if you already have workable pieces that play well and who'll help you win regardless of whether there's a shit roster around him or not. keep that player and make sure there aren't any large holes in the roster if you'd like to be a playoff calibur team. you improve around pieces like reyes. i just want to reiterate again that there was much still which could have been discussed regarding the failings of those rosters assembled by Minaya during the 07-09 seasons, and Reyes wasn't one of them. Reyes is a great player but we didn't have playoff calibur players around him those years, we had washed up players or players who quite simply weren't good enough. One player alone can't make up for all those weaknesses; Reyes wasn't one of the problems for the Mets.
I try to forget most of that crap. I do remember One Third Glavine, Aaron Heilman, and Omar Minaya being brought back when they should not have been brought back.
No one can defend Wilpon and the decisions taken in last 5-7 years . Minaya was a disaster but instead of canning the clown they let him sign bloated over the hill free agents and ruin our farm system. Sooner Einhorn mounts a takeove the better.
Apparently there's a decent chance that Einhorn will have control of the team within 3 years. Worst case scenario for him is that he gets all of his money back and still keeps 1/3 of the team. Those who want the Wilpons gone need to be rooting for Picard to win his Madoff suit against them. Personally I think the suit is a load of crap, but if it will help the team ... http://www.cbssports.com/#!/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/29635516
It looks to me like he was saying that about himself, not Minaya. As for the Picard suit, it's garbage. Going after the principal is really absurd and Picard has been doing a lot of grandstanding, leaking the suit to the media, etc. He wants to win the PR battle, even though he knows that the suit is trash.
