If you have a mediocre/bad OL Jim Brown isn't averaging 5.0 YPC so I have a hard time believing that OL was bad. Winslow has always put up big #s when healthy. if he's healthy he's significantly better than keller and I love Keller. I didn't bring up YPG on D, I brought up points allowed. Our D is w/o a doubt better BUT we allowed only 14 less pts throughout the year. I don't need the nonsense about you not continuing this debate, you can continue or not. No need to announce it, I'm sure we have argued before but I couldn't tell you what topics we discussed so I don't bring other issues into this debate. The bottom line is this, tampa has a vey talented offense. We have the egde at WR, they have the edge at RB and TE. The QBs are both good. I don't know enough about their OL but again if a RB averages 5.0 YPC that tells me the OL is pretty good.
You make some very vaild points. I also grew up near Prospect Park. 9th Av and 18th St to be exact. My grandparents lived on Prospect Av, diagonally across from Holy Name Church.
I strongly agree wit you. He has shown flashes of brilliance. Yet other times he isinaccurate. This MUST be the year he steps up. Freeman is going to be a good one for sure but Sanchez will be just as good and he will win a SB or two. Anyone remember the young Aikman? Bradshaw? Sanchez has outplayed those two Hall of Fame QBs in their first two years.
Josh Freeman's stats for his second year was comparable to a pro bowler. Sanchez's was in the bottom 5 in rating, avg and completion percentage. Is there really a discussion here? Okay if its close and you want to give some slack to Sanchez for the team performance but when one dwarfs the other you need to stop kidding yourselves. Last year Freeman was the MUCH better QB on a worse team. Now we have the third year and if Sanchez cant crack the 60% 80 rating plateau he is not a great let alone good QB no matter how much our running game and defense wins games.
Are you serious when you say Sanchez's ceiling is much higher than Freeman's? The ONLY reason Freeman projected to be a 1st round pick of 2009 draft was because of his ceiling. Cam Newton is the only prospect with higher Ceiling than Freeman among the current NFL players. When you say Ceiling you should primarily look at who is the better athlete and the tools that athlete has to succeed at that particular position. Sanchez is nowhere the athlete Freeman is and has a weaker arm, is shorter and not as accurate. Sanchez will never be a dual threat as a runner and a passer, will never be able shake off tacklers like Big Ben and Freeman. Tl;dr: Freeman's ceiling is higher than Sanchez's and anyone that says otherwise is just being a homer.
I didn't think there was any debate about the ceiling issue. Pretty sure the consensus was: Stafford Freeman Sanchez But Sanchez was more pro ready
these debates are hilarious. No is right or wrong, their careers aren't over yet. But some of this shit is just downright funny. And ceiling just doesn't mean physical attributes and athleticism. People say ceiling like they know what it means.
I'm admittedly a homer but that does not mean me saying Sanchez is a has higher ceiling is without merit. Freeman is playing under NO microscope and could ease into his surroundings. Sanchez had to win right away, and Sanchez has played his best games under those exact circumstances. Athletic ability is 1 part of the equation, Freeman hasn't really had to answer the other part just yet. You'll see this year Mark playing his playoff football in every game. The game will slow down that much more and his leadership skills are going to come up big. Freeman led the Bucs to 2 key conference losses(1 in the division) towards the end of 2010 that pretty much sealed their fate. Yes for the umpteenth time the Bucs have faced an easier schedule with absolutely no pressure on them. Sanchez broke 2 rookie playoff records, and has already tied the record for road playoff wins. Until Freeman does it when it counts I'm counting him out.
Don't really know who you are referring to but there isn't a monopoly on knowing the meaning behind a word
Did you sign up just to bash Sanchez? I'll take Sanchez over Freeman 10 out of 10 times. Henne just flat-out sucks, even though he's older and with more "experience" Like I said earlier, until Freeman goes on the road and beats Tom and Peyton in the playoffs in their buildings this discussion is pointless. 2 of Mark's game winning/comeback drives came in the playoffs. 1 last year in Indy, and the other 2 years ago in at San Diego. We won because of him, not in spite of him.
Holy shit are you serious? When did I bash sanchez? If you are equating saying that another QB has a higher ceiling than Sanchez to "bashing him" then you are a pretty sensitive person. Henne does suck(wow, I can be honest). To debunk your asinine assumption, I don't prefer Sanchez or Freeman over the other. I would have them as equal. One has shown better individual numbers while the other has shown he can win when it counts.
I was referring to your asinine ceiling chart. You have no clue what Freeman's true ceiling is, and no clue as to what Sanchez' ceiling is either. If you were to grade all QB's based off their rookie and sophomore years pretty much every QB would be graded with C's-F's.
Well done. You have determined that any and all speculation about how good a quarterback could possibly be is, in fact, subjective. I feel like my whole life has been a lie!
Well now you're past denial, that is wonderful. You just contradicted yourself with your previous post, so now work on that. I'll end this with a :beer: mate, don't want to get to far off track.
OK I guess we are done. I'll end with a suggestion. Email Kiper, Mcshay, Mayock etc and tell them their work is all opinion based. I'm sure they will be shocked. Edit: Just because something is an opinion, doesn't mean that there can't be a consensus of opinions. Therefore something that deviates from that could be seen as ridiculous. For instance if somebody said Tyrod Taylor had the highest ceiling of this year's QBs, that is subjective, but at the same time without merit. I'm sorry for assuming everybody understood that.
I get it how opinions work. To me comparing Freeman and Sanchez, is apples and oranges. Two completely different situations which without a doubt changes they way the game is played. Mark's first year we had to win, and we had to make the playoffs. So the games were called accordingly. The Bucs had no expectations whatsoever which allows more freedom, also turns out a 3-13 season. My POV is, after 10 years in the league the 09 QB draft class will have Sanchez rated number 1. (I doubt Stafford can stay healthy)
