Makes absolutely no sense. Ellis is most likely a goner, Heyward would step right in and not miss a beat.
This. Although, if the stay is granted, the Panthers won't be able to trade anyone on draft day. Cam's a marketing boon that will put asses back in the seats in Carolina. Just curious, WW, but how do you see the franchise addressing the position if they DON'T draft Cam? Pin their hopes on free agency? I don't see them sitting with Clausen and further alienating their fan base this season. The FO allowed massive damage to be done last year in anticipation of a 2011 rebound.
whoa - barring any bizarre contract issues, devito will be a jet for long time.....if the jets could clone him i am sure they would for both DE spots. he is very underrated and grades out consistently well. jil
Doubtful, DeVito is probably the most underrated player on the Jets. We need DeVito in there to stop the run, especially if we continue investing so much into our cornerbacks.
In your opinion. In mine, it makes a lot of sense. I think Ellis will be back. Ellis is definitely better than DeVito, even at this late stage of his career. DeVito could be a part of the rotation and back up both players and continue spelling Pouha at NT, then when Ellis retired, DeVito could resume his starting role if the Jets hadn't drafted another DE.
If DeVito is the most underrated player on the Jets, he's the most overrated on this board. You can't be serious about his being better than Ellis (and that's what you're saying if you have Heyward start in Ellis' spot and don't rep-sign Ellis. Ellis is much better both at stopping the run and in rushing the QB. Heyward is supposed to be a stud at stopping the run. DeVito and he should battle it out for the other starting spot.
You don't draft a player just to put "asses in the seats". I'm not a Cam Newton hater, but there is a risk that Newton will not be the Franchise QB. A failed pick at QB #1 will set this franchise back even further. I'd be willing to give Clausen a shot in 2011 and see if he can cut it. There's a pretty good qB in next year's draft from Stanford. The Panthers aren't turning their franchise around in one draft or free agency, it's a multi-year project.
We can agree to disagree, IMO, Ellis is gone. Ellis isn't going to take a huge paycut. I never said DeVito was better than Ellis. Heyward is better than DeVito and would be perfect to replace Ellis.
I think most of the posters I've seen on this site talking about how bad Carolina is are flat out wrong. Other than at DT, their D is pretty set and pretty darned good, as well as young. On offense, they had a lot of injuries last year, especially on the OL (and no depth due to Richardson's cheapness because of the pending lockout), had a bunch of young, raw WRs, and no QB. This is a team that 2 years ago had 2 - 1,000 rushers and was very competitive. Carolina's OC was awful. His passing offense was unimaginative, predictable, and overall, somewhat conservative. I don't think John Fox is a particularly good HC, either. If Carolina were to trade a future pick(s) for Kevin Kolb, take Dareus or Fairley in this draft, and have better luck with injuries this season, I think they'd be pretty darned competitive again.
Heyward will be amazing against the run, open up lanes, and he is someone that can get after the QB as well. He will put pressure on the QB. If anyone was to take over Ellis's spot on that line, you would want it to be a guy like, Heyward. Devito is a great run stopper, and he is getting better and better at opening up lanes. He has a ways to go, but he isn't horrible at it. His main flaw is being able to get after the QB. I don't think Ellis will be back either, regardless of weather or not we draft someone like, Heyward. I just can't see it.
Agreed. Carolina was a pretty good football team prior to last years injuries. I don't think they are really deserving of that #1 draft pick this year, but bad beats made it happen. I don't feel they are in a panic situation either, I truly feel that Newton would be a strong reach for them. You gotta go with a safe pick, IMO.
i agree ... i think carloina is a lot better than people are giving them credit for but i still dont know that i could pass on cam newtons potential
The biggest thing is all their best players are FAs, so who knows who they will resign with the cheapness of the franchise. It could be a decent team, or it could fall apart if they lose most of them...
When did I say you draft him JUST to put asses in the seats? I've posted my thoughts on the situation in multiple threads. This isn't just a game; it's also a business, and Jerry Richardson made it very clear last season where his priorities lay. He cut or allowed to walk every single aging star he could. He's about to lose Steve Smith as well. He cut costs in the season, throwing it away and figuring Andrew Luck would be available to rebuild when his salary cap (and floor) went back in place in 2011. Well, things didn't work out. The Panthers would be faced with a VERY tough decision if Richardson hadn't tossed away 2010. Newton vs Dareus? Tough call, and I'd probably go with Dareus. However, after 2010, they should absolutely go with Newton. He very well could be a franchise QB, and the situation they began last year necessitates that they take a potential franchise QB this offseason. The faces of their franchise are either gone or leaving (Steve Smith). I'm well aware there's a pretty good QB in next year's draft. I also know that it's impossible to predict who's going to be #1 in next year's draft, and if you hang your hat completely on Andrew Luck, you're essentially saying you're throwing away a 2nd consecutive season. Awfully poor business decision to do that, and like I said, Jerry Richardson made it VERY clear where his heart lay last year. He'll push to draft Newton, even with Rivera in town, and he'll ride the money that excitement will bring as long as he can waiting for him to develop. If he doesn't, it'll set the franchise back, but not as much as in years past if we end up with a new CBA and a rookie pay scale. Still, that's a risk you take with any QB.
Actually Gholston stats at OSU weren't that good. He had good season numbers because he had three or four big games and disappeared the rest of the time. I preached and preached to take the DT Ellis that NO ended up taking. Ellis isn't a star, but isn't a bust. Houston just has tremendous upside since he has all the physical tools, had a tremendous season and was consistant all year. You want to take about a hot and cold player similar to Gholston and that brings back Ayers. Houston attacks the play, Ayers reads and reacts to it and Gholston stuck his thumb up his bum. Since Ryan arrived the Jets are good against the run. They lack the killer pass rusher. No one in this draft has the potential to get to the QB from the OLB that Houston has. Ryan uses his DEs to clog the lanes and stop the run. No doubt a NG is needed, but just as important is a pass rushing demon. His name is Justin Houston, but I doubt he will gets past NE (their second first round pick) if Tampa or Atlanta don't snag him first. I'd also pass on Heywood if either Taylor or Paea is still on the board. Just my opinion and we'll see who is closer in two days.
That's the key. They're INCREDIBLY young, but if they took Dareus, they'd HAVE to be banking on grabbing a FA. IMO, it's probably the smarter way to go, but you have no idea just what price Philadelphia is going to be demanding, or what the demand for Kolb's services will be after the draft. It's a really tough gamble. The other problem is the division they play in. Brees, Ryan, Freeman. They can't possibly sell their fans on another season with Clausen. They need a splash. If you think you can get Kolb, you take Dareus. If not, you draft Newton. I don't know how competitive they'll be in the division either way right now, but they'll at least stop the bleeding on the business side.
Not to be rude, now I know you have no clue what you're talking about. Go look up Gholston's #s at OSU and get back to me. Trust me, no one on this site knows more about Gholston. Houston is a lot closer being the next Gholston than Ayers.
I quoted you, look it up. I'm from a different school of thought. I would draft players that have the best chance of succeeding and Dareus fits that bill. You're right, this is a businees and drafting Newton would sell tons of tickets and if he bust out in a couple of years it will set the franchise back years. We don't have a CBA so we don't know the rookie wage scale. If it's not going to change the financial doom with a failed #1 pick of Newton is devastating. I don't hate Newton, I'm smart enough to know he has all the physical tools to be an outstanding NFL QB, but there is also a big risk at #1 has to be realized. I'm just tired of everyone mocking Newton #1, I went another direction and I have an argument for my decision. Iggy, I don't always follow the herd to the slaughterhouse. My POV's are always well thought out, I don't post nonsense.
You quoted one piece and made it sound like it was my whole argument. As I've said before, I don't think Newton's the best player in the draft. However, I've met a few professional sports owners and have a good relationship with someone who runs a team by proxy. I know exactly how much marketing and a fan base can factor into personnel decisions. The latter team also won a championship in the last decade. The two are not mutually exclusive. Of COURSE you can draft Dareus, and it's the safer move. Lower risk, (arguably) lower reward. The Panthers just aren't in a position to make that move IMO. As far as how far the team is set back, here's the deal: If the stay is granted, the lockout continues until the court of appeals, which is more than likely to favor the owners. That means no negotiations during the draft and essentially the end of hope for the players union's big plan. If the stay is granted, and that could happen today, my guess is the union will move quickly to get back to the table and we get a cap. It all hinges on what happens today, and the Panthers' decision very well could depend in part on that decision. Again, Richardson values the business end VERY highly. As far as following everyone to the slaughterhouse, I couldn't care less who the Panthers draft from a personal standpoint. I certainly don't care enough to make any claim that I WANT them to draft Newton. It's just the smarter move on the whole unless the team thinks it can get Kolb.
This is what I've been thinking with Jordan and Heyward. Jordan won't be there. Heyward will be the highest rated player on the board at 30 and probably the only player with a first round grade left for the Jets if he does fall that far.
