We've all been kicking around the different options we have at 30 for a while now, but I want to see how most of you feel about the NT vs DE needs. I want to preface this by saying, I know we need an OLB and S as well. I just want to discuss the DL for now. Right now, our starting DL in a 3 man front is Ellis, Devito and Pouha in the middle. That's not a bad line, but we don't have much depth. Pouha having the flexibility to play DE is really what I think is the key to our draft. All 3 guys can play DE at a high level, but only one can successfully play NT. (not counting any of the young guys we have) If we were to draft a DE like Heyward, or even JJ Watt or Cam Jordan for that matter, we would have a nice group of ends, but will still only have one guy to play the nose. If Pouha gets injured, we're screwed. Not to mention, how many effective snaps in a game can one 330 pounder product at the nose? Now, if we draft a NT, we're set. Then you're looking at the same 3 man front, with the rookie backing up both the NT spot, and either end spot. If Pouha gets injured- we have depth. Now, the two first round NT's that have been mainly been discussed, Phil Taylor and Maybe Paea, have their flaws. I think Paea is an animal, but he's more of a gap shooting penetrator. I'm sure he's strong enough to handle the nose, but may not be ideal. He also has the knee injury. Taylor is prototype, but he's got charactor issues, motor issues, disappears, and now he might have the foot issue. All this build up is leading me to one question-- Can Moo Wilkerson play the nose? If he can, he's got to be our guy. 6-5 315should be good enough for nose or end. I think if we had two guys (including pouha) with the flexibility to play both nose and end, it really lessens our DL need. If not him, who are the top 5 NT's in this draft? Right now I put our needs in this order: NT/OLB/S/DE - feel free to adjust.
Based on this defense, I would say NT: #1a, OLB: #1b, DE:#1c, S: #2 Basically, take BPA at one of those 3 spots. If you want a clear-cut answer, I'd say a dominant NT is the most important in a Rex 3-4
I don't agree... if Pouha gets uhrt we can play DeVito at NT. Plus I'm hoping Tevaseau will become a solid back up.
So if you had two players of equal caliber at DE and NT, you think we should take the DE? I'm not suggesting that we reach for a NT by the way- only that it seems to be the bigger need than DE
In a 3-4 defense, you pay a guy that can play both positions AND be dominant. A guy like Jenkins or Ngata draw double and triple teams, allowing backers to cause the chaos this defense thrives on in the backfield. If you can't your hands on a guy like that just about anyone will do.
I don't think so. Kelly Gregg is a very good nose tackle for Baltimore, but he's not spectacular. We just need someone that can get the job done. Sione Pouha had a hell of a year. I'm not sure why you guys are forgetting about what he did when Kris Jenkins went down. The defense wasn't hurt when Jenkins was done. I'd like to find someone that can fill in for him when he needs to come out. The most important part about Ryan's defense is coverage.
Everyone knows Pouha is good. I wish we had 5 of him on this team. Problem is, he's our only NT. If we could draft a quality NT, who can also play at the end spot, we're set with our entire rotation. VS drafting a DE, who at say 295 lbs can't anchor the nose. Then if we lose Pouha, we're screwed.
You're right. I'll go into a little more detail though: The DL is not all that important in Rex 3-4 in comparison to the coverage like you said. But, if you're comparing DE - NT - OLB, they're all on pretty equal footing regarding importance to the defense. That being said, a dominant NT that can occupy two (even three) linemen frees up lanes for the LB and Ryan's exotic blitz packages. A guy like Revis is far and away the most important piece to the puzzle (especially in 2009). Coverage aside, a dominant LDE/LOLB combo probably has the biggest visual/statistical impact but I'd take a NT that carries the entire front 7 up a notch over the others. I know it's counter-intuitive saying that after the Jets defense improved following Jenkins' injury 2 seasons ago. I think that was a testament to Rex and his schemes being catered to what he has and the talent available to him.
To me it comes down to a players versatility. If you are a standard run stopping nose or 5 technique, they are comparable, and not uniquely valuable. If you can play a number of positions on the line, and contribute in some way on all types of defensive situations, your stock goes way up. For instance, taking another posters example of Jenkins and Ngata, they are versatile enough to play all over the line. On running situations, they clog the line, command double teams, and free up the ILB's for scraping and meeting the runners in the hole. On passing situations, they collapse pockets and disrupt the QB, or command double teams freeing up edge rushers. They great ones disrupt even with double teams. To me, that is an invaluable piece to most 3-4 schemes. Conversely, guys like Mario Williams is obviously more than a standard 5 technique. He can provide pass rush, command double teams, and stuff the run. If you run a 3-4, and see any DL with versatility and ability to disrupt the offense in a number of situations, you pull the trigger early.
Agreed. I think that we're doing way too much pidgeon-holing in this thread. If the Jets can get a big ole monster nose I'll be ecstatic, and if they get a slightly smaller 34 end, that's outstanding. I really don't care about what position they get because I'm just hoping that they add skill to the line. If they get another nose that can play, I'm sure Pouha can slide to end. If they get a quality end, I think DeVito can swap in some at nose. If they get a kid that can play both, even better. With the different looks the Jets give on D, it's tough to really say that they NEED one over the other, to be perfectly honest. Don't get me wrong, if there was a massive hole at either spot then sure, you'd have to be more specific, but with the way the roster stands it's really just a matter of taking the best guy available at either spot. Side note, as a general point NTs are more valuable than 34 DEs because their presence dictates so much, but I think that Pouha is better than either Ellis or DeVito at this point.
We're not going to get a player like Mario Williams picking at 30. That's the problem. Mario Williams is a once in a decade type talent - the guy played running back, receiver, safety, and returned kicks in high school. He's just an amazing athlete that just doesn't come around that often. If this team wants to remain a Super Bowl contender, we need to find players that keep us consistently great. Cameron Heyward fits the bill - he's got a decently high ceiling, he's got a great head on his shoulders, and he's an incredibly hard worker. JJ Watt and Cameron Jordan are out of the question, but Muhammed Wilkerson is another option for us. Wilkerson is a little more versatile than Heyward, but he also has more question marks. Heyward is pretty close to a sure thing and that's what we need.
Personally, I don't think drafting a strict DE is the best thing for this team. I would much rather a nose who can cover two positions on the line. Every nose can play DE, but not every DE can play nose. This is all assuming equal value of course. Wilkerson, Paea, Houston, Ayers, Taylor, Reed, Heyward, Moore, Williams-- my top 9 in order. Can't wait
Agreed. With Mario, Jenks, and Ngata i used elite examples. Picking at #30 we won't see a slam dunk, but some disruptive DL's can be found this year especially. Guys like Heyward, Wilkerson, even Taylor and Ballard will get long looks by the FO. If they feel any of them have the potential to be disruptive in a number of ways, they'll be strong considerations in round 1 (or trading to 2).
I like your group but I would flip flop Houston with Wilkerson and drop Ayers between Heywood and Moore. Houston, Paea, Wilkerson, Taylor, Heywood, Reed, Ayers, Moore, Williams. That is providing someone unexpected doesn't fall to us.
1) Don't agree AT ALL!!! 2) And assuming every NT can play DE, how well he plays those two positions is important too. 3) We cannot create a player like on madden, only draft from the draft eiligible prospects. In my opinion there's no one that fits the description you gave... 4) I agree with Wilkerson being one of the better players that might be available. Not so much with Paea.
Actually, there are plenty of guys who fit that description in this draft. Wilkerson, Paea and Taylor are three possibilities in the first round alone who can play nose, or end. You can put a 330 pounder at end, but there are not many guys at 6-4, 290 who can consistently hold up in the middle. Rex has always lined up nose tackles at end successfully-- Ngata, Howard Green, Jenks, Pouha all flexed to both spots. There's really not much to argue here, so you can stop putting on a show.
Right- but Pouha is a damn good end as well. We have 3 guys who can play end, but really only one who can play nose.
Honestly they can all play NT as well as DE. Pretty fucking versatile bunch we have on the D-Line, Although adding a true NT like a Phil Taylor would be the icing on the cake.
I was a big fan of adding Taylor until I read about his feet. I agree with you when you say adding a true NG would be icing. The Jet D was just soooo much better when Jenkins was healthy. Pouha is good, but he isn't that good. He benefits from the extra support he gets that Jenkins didn't need.
