Im not suggesting it wasnt a good deal. Im saying we only drafted 1 single player for just a first round pick in this regime that was not a bust. First rounders are not a sure thing, tons of these guys end up being garbage. Which is why giving up a first rounder (and an incredibly late one at that) for someone who is GUARANTEED to be an elite player, possibly even the best in the nfl at his position just entering his prime is a huge steal. Even two first rounders for Ngata is a lot, but probably worth it. Especially considering odds are we would trade up with at least 1 of them, giving up a 2nd and 3rd or 4th. So it would be like giving up 2 first rounders for Ngata and saving us a few mid round picks. I know theres NO WAY it happens, and I would strongly prefer us to trade down for a change. But it wouldnt by any means be that terrible of a trade. Unless Ngata goes the Jenks rout and has his career end as soon as he got here.
instead trading two first round pics, i would trade harris and braylon for ngata. braylon is probably gone anyway so we can apply his 5-7 million to ngata. trading harris would be more like a 'swap' with the edge going to ngata. the $15 million we save by not paying braylon and harris could be used to sign ngata for 10-12 million and still be 3-5 million ahead plus we'd still have our two first rounders to get OLB and receiver help.
You should be a redskins fan. This is how George Allen ran teams. They didn't win a ring. They still run the franchise in this fashion. They're in complete disarray.
What in the world are you talking about? This FO has drafted one first round bust. D'Brick, Mangold, Revis, Keller, Sanchez are all first round picks made by the current FO that were very good -> great picks. How exactly does the manor in which they acquired the picks make any difference at all in your argument that first round picks aren't that valuable? This is the most ridiculous argument I've heard in a long time. A first round pick is a first round pick whether it's the one you get from the league or whether you traded Joe Namath for it. We'll know about Wilson in a year or two.
He seems to be taking issue with the Jets trading up or just trading for all those picks besides Brick. Apparently if they just use their pick it is likely to e a bust. If that wasn't the point I don't know what was.
It doesn't matter if you have to take a bukaki party from the Bengals to get the first round pick. That doesn't change the value of it.
You say you might not trade a first for Ngata. Is this because you think he stinks or because you think defensive linemen aren't worth first round picks? Would you be pissed if the Jets took a DE/DT at 30?
MB, Mangold was All-Pro...1 of 2 best centers in football. I read this thread yesterday...pondered the idea...but I don't think the Jets' first round pick this year would be enough to get it done.
I don't think Ngata stinks...he's an excellent player, and I'd love to have him on this roster. But i trust our coaching staff to develop our own talent, and building through the draft is what championship teams do (Steelers, Packers, Colts). I wouldn't be pissed if the Jets picked a DE/DT at 30....in fact, I'd be ecstatic. It's a position of need of some serious depth and youth infusion. Ngata would fit in nicely...but the 2011 draft is loaded with DL prospects. We'll fill a need at a 1/3 of the price it would cost to sign Ngata....and it won't cost us a pick.
We're not communicating. You had said earlier that you wouldn't trade a first for Ngata if he was cost controlled-is that true? The number 30 pick will cost about 1/5th or a 1/10th of what Ngata will get so I completely understand not trading a first or two firsts for him. He will cost a fortune and the Jets have a ton of other needs; I don't think he's a fit at all. The whol debate was "would you trade a first (or two firsts) for Ngata IF he had a reasonable contract (i.e. $2 million a year). So we're clear, where are you on that question? Would you trade a first for Ngata if he had a 5 year cheap contract? Would you trade the Jets 2011 and 2012 firsts for Ngata if he had a cheap five year contract?
We could conceivably take a solid->excellent OLB with our #1 this year and a solid->excellent DE/DT with our #1 next year. I'd much rather see that scenario than have 1 great DE/DT. You also never know what major need could come up between now and then. Career ending injuries happen in this sport.
Think about it this way. The last 2 picks near our current spot are Keller and Wilson. Assuming we get players of about that ability, would you trade those two players (note, their rookie selves, not their current selves, so less seasoned, but younger) for Ngata? That's a no-brainer. The problem here is that most people treat these 1st round picks as the best possible outcome. That is, they're going to produce Ed Reed and Clay Matthews every time. Fact is, for every one of those guys, there's 7-8 ok players and 7-8 busts around the same slot. It's not a sure thing by any stretch of the imagination. Let's look at the last transaction we made of this magnitude. Curtis Martin. We gave up a 1st and 3rd for him. Since it was 2 picks the same year, it'd be like a 1st this year plus a 2nd next year. In addition the 1st round pick was higher (18th), and the cost to move up from our current position (30th) to 18th would be around a late 2nd round pick, so relatively speaking, it was worth about the same or a little higher as we'd be giving up for Ngata now. Now, was Curtis Martin worth it? Absolutely. By a large margin. What New England got in the end for those picks didn't amount to squat. Is Ngata as good as Martin? They play different positions, obviously, but I think so, especially given that DE's last longer in the league than RB's.
I'm not drinkin' the kool-aid, guys. You can throw ridiculous hypothetical scenarios at me till you're blue in the face, I'll take my chances with the 1st round draft picks. I stated it earlier....we have the CS/scouting dept that can find and groom our own talent now.
So let me get this straight, you would rather have Keller and Wilson (mostly drafted by our current scouting dept) than Ngata? You're sounding like a guy that'd rather keep his $1 lottery ticket than $200 in cash.
So let me get this straight, you'd rather have Ngata then Mangold and Sanchez? You'd rather have Ngata then D'Brick and Revis? You'd rather have Ngata then Keller and Harris? I can play this game too. And using Wilson as an example is pretty stupid at this point considering the two guys ahead of him at his position.
what if it were Nick Mangold and Brick for Ngata..or or or....what if it were Sanchez and Keller for Ngata.....duuuuurrrrrrrrrrr jesus christ. EDIT: WSW beat me to the punch....well done, sir.
How about the Revis trade. We traded a late one, a late two from the same year, and a four to get thr 14th pick and a fifth rounder. You can usually trade the two for a one in the following year's draft-the Patsies always do this- so we essentially trade two ones and a four for Revis. (The Panthers drafted Beason and Kalil with the two picks so they got two pro bowlers out of the deal). Was this a smart move, a dumb move that worked out because Revis wasn't just good, he's become probably the best DB in the league or wat is a dumb move? Salary aside I'd trade the Jets 2011 and 2012 firsts for an all pro like Ngata at any defensive position or a top five pick in this draft.
Unless you think the Jets are going to suck next year the 2012 pick isn't going to be a high pick that gets you a guy like Revis (14), Sanchez (5) or Brick (4). Would I trade Wilson and Mangold for Ngata? In a heartbeat.
I think we've done too much trading away of draft picks. Revis is a great corner but cost us a pretty penny on both ends - draft, and contracts. I don't know if it was a smart move to be honest. I think I'd rather have two pro-bowl players whose contracts probably add up to the one probowl CB. I wouldn't want to get rid of Revis though. Yes, we've established your opinion already.
