At his position (NT), his value is second to maybe Suh, but only because Suh is younger, not because he's better. What makes his value even better for us is that he's already familiar with Rex's system and can play anywhere on the line. This guy will help the pass rush AND help stop the run. He's a 3-down player that will make this defense among the best in NFL history. $10 million a year + 30th pick this year and 24-32nd pick next year doesn't seem that high a price to me. Here's the last 6 30th picks: 2010 Jahvid Best RB California Detroit 2009 Kenny Britt WR Rutgers Tennessee 2008 Dustin Keller TE Perdue New York Jets 2007 Craig Davis WR LSU San Diego 2006 Joseph Addai RB Louisiana State Indianapolis 2005 Heath Miller TE Virginia Pittsburgh Some good players in there, but nothing spectacular. Is Jahvid Best + Dustin Keller worth a Haloti Ngata? In my mind, this is a no-brainer. Obviously, the contract matters a lot and we have no clue what the CBA will be. But I'd say the 2 1st rounders for Ngata is worth exploring.
We can discuss whether Ngata is worth two first round players until we are blue in the face... the real question is do you think Ngata is worth two instant starters at positions of need? The answer to that question is no.
At least in recent Jets drafts, that's hardly assured. Kyle Wilson and Vernon Gholston, anyone? The success rate of late 1st round picks isn't that high. Maybe 50%. So you're talking about 1 starter, 1 backup with those 2 picks, 1 of which doesn't come until next year. Best case scenario is 1 instant starter now and 1 starter a year from now. Is Ngata worth a starter and a backup, one of which will be coming next year? I'd say yes, without a doubt.
You're forgetting the cap space again. It's two firsts plus cap space that could be used to sign one of Edwards or Holmes plus a bunch more cap space-maybe enough for Cromartie, and certainly enough to get a few Pool type players.
The guy is pretty fucking good. The best DT in the game, he's young, healthy, has no baggage and is in his prime. He is worth 2 mid-late first rounders in my opinion, it's just never going to happen. Turn the scenerio around to one of our own. What if Revis had the tag on him right now, and we were Baltimore fans. Would we take Revis for 2 late firsts? Shit, I would. As a Jets fan, I wouldn't consider letting Revis go for that little. I wouldn't want to trade him for 4 first round picks. Big time talent is not easy to find. A guy like Peyton Manning is worth probably 10 first round picks to some teams. What if a team like the Browns offered Indy 10 first round picks when Peyton was in his third year? It would sound like they gave up too much, but had it happened, the Browns would be a good team right now. Instead, only 3 players out of 12 drafted from 1999-2010 are still on the team. To me, that says these bigtime players are worth the picks, the trades just don't happen for whatever reason.
Don't mention Wilson in the same breath as Gholston. That's silly and you can't judge the success of the '10 draft until at least after this year. Outside of Gholston this FO has had very good success in the first round. I love how everyone brings up Gholston when discussing first round picks and conveniently ignores D'Brick, Mangold, Revis, Keller, and Sanchez. This is a team that is starving for depth with all the picks we've traded away in the last 3 years. Even if we could afford him it would be foolish to trade 2 first round picks for him IMO.
Well Ngata would fill one of those positions of need big time no? Imo the Jets biggest positions of need are at OLB and DE. We could upgrade the safety position as well but it's not up there in priority as OLB and DE. This is assuming most of our FAs are back. Not advocating trading 2 first rounders for Ngata but I can see the rationale. I wouldn't do it simply because of the risk of the other draft pick being a premium pick for whatever reason or an elite prospect falling down the draft board late into the draft ala Aaron Rodgers. And you only trade multiple first rounders for a young franchise QB
He would... but his salary would create another hole that needed to be filled. WR, CB, MLB, one of those positions would need a new starter.
Some quality picks in the 24-32 pick ranges: 2010: Jahvid Best (best RB of 2010 if it wasn't for his injury. He will prove it next yr) 2009: Big Play Clay, Hakeem Nicks 2008: Chris Johnson, Dustin Keller 2007: Jon Beason, Woodley (46th pick) 2006: Santonio, Addai, Mangold 2005: ARod, Roddy White, Logan Mankins There's a ton of quality you would be giving up with two first rounders. Trading for Ngata with like a 1st and a 4th or something would not be as bad, but his monster contract means we'll be losing at least two if not three of Braylon/Santonio/Cromartie/Jenks/Woody/Brad Smith. We can sign Braylon and Santonio for almost as much money as Ngata would demand (maybe an extra mil or two for them)...so no deal here.
I mean it obviously wont happen but its not really all that outrageous imo. I know because of contract it probably couldnt happen but Id do 2 high 1st rounders for Ngata in a heartbeat. Its not worse then 2 for Richard Seymour or Brandon Marshall.
Nobody defended it, did they? There's a theoretical question about whether you'd trade two firsts to get Ngata if Ngata had a much lower contract, but only the first poster thought it was an actual good idea.
I was responding to the guy saying that 1st round picks are "instant starters". I'm just saying that's not true in giving the example with Kyle Wilson. I actually think Kyle Wilson will be a good player, but Ngata is a GREAT player. Depth is really overrated. I actually think we're fine there. We have a lot of depth on DL, S, CB, RB, TE, QB, WR. Maybe lacking a little on LB, OL. Depth isn't the problem. It's top-end talent. Ngata is a top-end talent, what you'd call a "blue chipper". Harris and Revis are as well. On offense, it's just Brick, Mangold and Sanchez. Shonn Greene might get there, Keller/Braylon/Santonio could be but aren't there yet. These are the guys that win you games. Most drafts, you're lucky if you get 1 pro bowler and 1 decent starter. 2 1sts for Ngata is relatively cheap.
