Peyton Manning career postseason passer rating: 88.4 Tom Brady career postseason passer rating: 85.7 Not that these lone statistics conclusively prove that Manning is better than Brady, but it pretty much debunks junc's and the other Bradyphiles' theory that he's a better postseason QB than Manning.
Wow, Murrell I hope you're on my side for future arguments lol. That was very well put. Either way it's exciting that we get to debate this while these players are still active.
Hahahha come on. I know you aren't serious with that Where in a QB rating does it value getting clutch 3rd down conversions to seal games? What was Mark Sanchez' QB rating this year? Wasn't he ranked about 25th? It would be stupid to assert that Sanchez was a worse QB this season than Chad Henne, Mcnabb, Alex Smith, Carson Palmer and other QBs who had a higher QB rating than him. Obviously it takes more than a 2.7 difference in QB rating to evaluate whether or not a QB is better than another
You're right it doesn't tell the full story but to say that Brady is much better in the post season is just ridiculous. He used to be better in the post season. The past 4-5 years for the most part Manning has been better.
You didn't read closely. Those were Manning and Brady's career postseason passer ratings. And I said that a 2.7 difference in rating alone doesn't make Manning superior. But I was debunking the Bradyphiles' main argument that Brady is better in the postseason by demonstrating that even his postseason stats are comparable to Manning's. BTW, Brady has played like dogshit in almost every playoff game since Super Bowl 39. Since then he's choked just as many times as Manning has.
Also, who has the most recent ring? Yeah yeah I know Brady probably would if David Tyree doesn't make a Madden-esque catch in triple coverage, but even in that game Brady played like shit and only put up 14 points with "the greatest offense in NFL history." If the Pats stopped the Giants on that drive and won that game it wouldn't have been because of how "clutch" Brady is.
Come on this is unbelievable So ignoring the 2 ring advantage that Brady has, Manning has been better in the years that neither one of them played well enough to win Super Bowls? And Manning has a more recent one?(why that matters, not really sure) THOSE are your arguments?
i'd take brady over manning but it's not like i'd consider anyone taking manning over brady to be wrong. they're just 2 different flavors. these are my reasons. the super bowl wins. they aren't everything and football is the ultimate team sport, but being the leader of 3 sb winning teams gives mucho points in my book. same reason i tend to think of big ben as a much better qb than his numbers indicate. the goal of football is to win super bowls and brady has achieved the goal more times than manning. brady has played with lesser wrs his entire career besides 2007 with randy moss. peyton has thrown it to harrison, wayne and dallas clark. their best statistical seasons are similar, but brady's is better. head to head, brady has beaten peyton more often than not, regular season and post season. isn't this what it's all about? when they face each other, brady usually wins. what it boils down to for me is that i want the qb who has shown that he wins. forget numbers. get wins. isn't that what we all like about sanchez his first 2 years? these guys just win. in 4 super bowls, brady has won 3 and put his team in position to win a 4th with a couple minutes left. peyton won 1 and threw a pick6 to clinch the game for the saints. when it has counted the most, brady has come through most of the time and peyton has not.
Rings are a TEAM stat. If Manning was still ring-less then I might see your point. But he's proven himself. Given the large regular season statistical difference between Manning and Brady, I think the ring differential is rather negligible. Way too many variables for that stat to be the end-all-be-all of who's better.
Brady has a better regular season QB rating than Manning. And if you think a 2 ring difference is negligible then I don't think you are placing enough importance on it
Easy to get more rings when you have a great defense and great coaching staff. Dungy and Caldwell are both nice guys but they strike me as decent, not great coaches. They owe Manning for their success a lot more than Manning owes them. That's like in baseball using a pitcher's "record" as a metric of how good he is instead of ERA or strikeouts. A pitcher's "record" doesn't mean shit and neither does a QB's. If it did then I guess Joe Flacco's a better QB than Philip Rivers since the Ravens won 12 games and made the playoffs. How many MVP's does Tom Brady have?
A pitcher's record doesn't matter? So they don't use a 20 win season as a benchmark for greatness? But more importantly baseball isn't comparable to footall in any way. The QB position is the most important position in sports. And to answer your question, Brady has 2 after this year, but remember it is a regular season award. How many Super Bowl MVPs does Brady have?
He has 2 Super Bowl MVPs but the first one against the Rams shouldn't even count considering he threw for less than 150 yards and completed less than 60% of his passes. When no other player stands out they give the Superbowl MVP to the winning team's QB by default. Manning also has a slightly higher combined regular season/postseason QB rating than Brady (94.3 and 94.0 respectively). BTW you didn't answer my question. Is Flacco a better QB than Rivers since his team won more games?
As much as junc tries to make it sound like it's not close the debate between the two is very close. It's a debate that goes on forums like these all over the internet. Some people value one thing and other people value another. Junc tries to devalue what Manning does by calling them "fantasy stats" but fails to recognize that without Manning the Colts would be lucky to win 3 games. Even when Sorgi was there they would have been lucky to win 6 games. Manning is the difference maker on that team. Brady was out for an entire year and Matt Cassel came in and won 11 games for them. And he didn't have to go up against 3 teams in his division who were a combined 12-36 (4 of those 12 wins came against the 1-15 team in the division). Yeah, yeah he had an easier schedule. There's always an excuse :lol:. I know they didn't make the playoffs, but I don't put much stock into that considering they were only the 2nd 11 win team not to make the playoffs in the SB era. Fact is that w/o Brady they didn't collapse like the Colts would have w/o Manning.
The problem with this argument is that your argument of how the Colts would do with Sorgi is a)an invalid comparison and b) pure speculation. We have seen the dropoff between Brady and Cassel...5 games and not making the playoffs against a historically easy schedule. And Matt Cassel is looking like a legit starter in this league. He is a Pro-Bowler as a matter of fact. So the difference between Brady and Cassel being 5 games is enormous. Now the dropoff if the Colts had Matt Cassel as their QB, we will never know.
Cassel looked like a legit starter this season in....the same system the Patriots have used this past decade!!!! What happened to Cassel last year before he had Charlie Weis as his OC? Saying that 5 games is the difference between Brady and Cassel is silly. We don't know what Brady would have done in the 2008 season. What we do know is that Cassel WON 11 games playing in that system. Not making the playoffs is a ridiculous argument considering that the 2008 Patriots were only the 2nd team in the SB era to win 11 games and not make the playoffs. Meanwhile and 8-8 team DID make the playoffs that year. We do know that Cassel didn't play well in a non-Patriots type system (2009 Chiefs). I don't think Cassel would do well replacing Manning, certainly not after seeing how he did in 2009.
What system the Pats used this past decade? Are you talking about the one from when they were winning SBs? Or the one with Randy Moss as the focus? Or the heavy 2 TE set system of this year? I am confused And of course coaching can do wonders for a QB, but look at the team around Cassel this year compared to last year as well I am confused as to why Charlie Weis is looked at as this genius that can make average QBs look good when Brady became a better QB after he left.
