Getting Defensive: It is time for the Jets to start over on defense

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by klecko73, Jan 25, 2011.

  1. klecko73

    klecko73 Guest

    I now many people will disagree that it is too radical to completely blow up the Jets defense. That being said, that is exactly what the Jets need to do.

    The Jets need to move forward with a plan to get younger, faster and cheaper in the front seven if they want to win the Super Bowl.

    I know this is probably counter-intuitive, but realistically there is actually very little the Jets can do at this point to make the team better on offense. The incremental growth from the Jets offense will simply be a by-product of Sanchez’s continued development.
    Provided the Jets give him the same or similar type weapons – re-sign Holmes and Edwards, bring LT back (provided he moves into a Marcus Allen 3rd down back role), and look to transition a new RT – the Jets offense will get better because Sanchez is better.

    The same cannot be said for the defense:

    The key position on the Jets defensive line is the DT. The Jets can get away with JAGs at the DE spots because in the Ryan 3-4, the ends are only required tie-up those offensive lineman in their gaps. I don’t expect the Jets to spend any significantly high picks or premium dollars on the DE spot. However, if a true 3-4 nose tackle is available in the draft or FA, the Jets will line up the truck to make a play. Pouha played well in Jenkins’ absence and developed into a very solid player. If the Jets can bring a draft pick + cut/resign Jenkins to a favorable short term project, I would expect them to go that route. As for the ends, I highly doubt Ellis will return as he will be demanding more money than the Jets are willing to pay. I think the Jets believe that between Devito, Pouha (provided another DT is brought in + cut/resigning Jenkins) and a combination of Dixon, Gilbert and Pitoitua can hold up the d-line without spending too much money.

    The LB spot is an interesting dilemma for the Jets. Despite signing Bart Scott and Calvin Pace to big contracts, the LB core is a bit old and needs some fresh legs. The fact that Gholston never panned out has hurt the team, but that problem will be over once he is released this off-season. David Harris’ impending FA is also problematic as he really is only a 2-down ILB and is a bit of a liability in pass coverage. Jason Taylor will be one and down this year – despite some flashes, it is clear his tank is empty. Bryan Thomas, despite the fact the Jets should have drafted Ed Reed (he was the best safety available in the draft and the Jets had a safety need at the time), has turned into a nice player and clearly found a role on this team as a 3-4 LB. The problem with the LB core is where the money is at. The Jets really don’t have anyone waiting in the wings for any of the these players and had to band-aid with Taylor after missing badly with Gholston.

    In the secondary, I don’t think the Jets will look at Aso because he will be too expensive and then Jets will have tied up $20 million worth of cap money with bookend CBs that no one will throw at. I think the Jets will re-sign Cromartie and look for a play making safety in the draft. Cro will come much cheaper than Aso, allow them to sign Holmes/Edwards AND the Jets will then be able to get a safety that isn’t a liability in coverage. That will allow Cro to play more bump and run (which is what he excels at) and not have to worry about playing off and getting burned for a big play because the safety can’t get over in time. Leonhard will come back with Smith and Wilson made some nice strides the last part of the season and playoffs and could look to move into the slot CB. I can’t envision a scenario where Pool comes back as the Jets need someone who can match up in coverage with deep help against WRs and TEs in the middle.

    This is where I think the Jets should get radical:

    #1 – The Jets need to CUT Gholston, Thomas, Taylor, Scott, and Jenkins. They shouldn’t resign Pool or Coleman, but may consider bringing back Eric Smith. Cutting Pace makes no sense cap wise as there is no savings and he still is a productive player, though a little overpaid (he will clearly need to re-negotiate in 2012 or he is a goner then). Simply put, the money dictates these other players need to go as their production is not worth the cap hit. The biggest problem is with Scott – he talks a big game but makes ZERO impact plays. He was terrible in the AFCG against the Steelers giving up 4 missed tackles against Mendenhal and he has made no impact plays in his 2 years with the Jets (only 2 sacks, 1 FF and no INTs) whereas Harris (who is 3 years younger) made 8.5 sacks, 3 FFs and 2 INTs playing right next to him. By cutting these players the Jets can free up over $13 million in cap room.

    #2 – The Jets need to resign Harris, which as he is a RFA it will be a bit easier to accomplish than it otherwise would be. If they can cut/resign Jenkins to a much lower contract, he could help as an early down rotational guy on the DL. The Jets need to dedicate this draft to bringing in an ILB, OLB, DT and Safety. The Jets need to go defense early and often all draft day to bring in speed at those 3 positions and size at DT.

    #3 – The Jets need to commit to a youth movement and potentially deal with 5 new starters on defense: at both DE positions, ILB, OLB, and safety position. Will this impact the Jets defense? Sure they may not be statistically better than they were the past 2 years with all these young/new players, but the reality is that come playoff time the added infusion of speed and youth will be a god-send. They need to improve the middle of the field defense which bringing a safety, ILB and DT will do, without necessarily resorting to scheming all the time. The fact of the matter is that the reason the Jets played as well as they did against the Colts, Pats and Steelers (in the 2nd half) – was a credit to Ryan’s defensive scheming hiding the warts. The Steelers exposed the Jets in that first half of the game when the D-Line go pushed around and Scott did an especially abysmal job at stopping the run which was compounded by the lack of an OLB killer speed pass rusher in taking out Big Ben. The Jets were so overly concerned giving up the big play in the first half against the Steelers that they gave up a bunch of much smaller players which did more damage than one long Mike Wallace TD catch could have caused. The Jets got away with that against the Colts and Pats because they don’t have the run game to make the Jets pay. The Steelers did and the Jets paid the price in the first half when they got too far behind to come back.
     
  2. James Hasty

    James Hasty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    15,902
    Likes Received:
    5,133
    For what it would cost to resign Harris we could keep Scott and Thomas. Two starting linebackers is a better use of $10 mil than one starting linebacker. Especially when that one linebacker is a liability on third downs.
     
  3. nyjetsrule

    nyjetsrule Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Messages:
    10,379
    Likes Received:
    7
    Again the reason scott doesnt make the big plays is because he frees up everyone else (particularly harris) to roam free and make those plays.

    I wouldnt be opposed to parting ways with BT if we can actually bring in a pass rusher via FA. I personally feel Pace is an excellent #2 option as a rush linebacker, but he isnt a dominant rusher that can be considered a #1 rusher. He can be a great #2 and take advantage of some 1 on 1's. But the second he has a second guy comitted, he fails to break through.
     
  4. tomdeb

    tomdeb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,378
    Likes Received:
    3,090
    it is way past time to cut bryan thomas--the guy brings no speed at all to the edge rush
     
  5. klecko73

    klecko73 Guest

    The problem is that when Scott needs to make plays he doesn't. Despite all the playing time the guy gets on the field - even when Harris isn't on the field - he still doesn't make those plays. For a guy riding shotgun, he gets paid an awful lot of money not to produce.

    I agree with signing an OLB - and they guy I would like is Woodley, but he is going to cost too much and I can't envision a scenario where the Steelers let him go. ILBs are cheaper and the Jets can look to get some speed OLBs in the draft. Plus, the Jets would be better served to sign Edwards/Holmes with that money vice keeping Scott around and signing Woodley. It is easier for younger players to make impact plays at the OLB position (Gholston being the exception that proves the rule) vice drafting a WR that takes 2-3 years to develop. It is a heck of alot easier on a defense when they have the lead and need to rush the passer who has to throw.

    I agree about Pace - he would be even more effective if they actually had a threat on the opposite side of the defense. The problem is that Thomas, although a solid player, isn't that guy and isn't worth the money they are paying him. They could get similar production from another guy at a lower pay rate, thus freeing up more money.
     
  6. Joe Willie White Shoes

    Joe Willie White Shoes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2003
    Messages:
    8,145
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    I cannot believe you would want to release the best front 7 player on the Jets defense and the team MVP for a pedestrian player (Thomas) and an overpaid, aging LB (Scott). That makes no sense. Save money elsewhere (Gholston, Thomas, Ellis) , not by releasing a young budding star.
     
  7. Jake

    Jake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    15,749
    Likes Received:
    2,361
    I dont feel like reading all of that.

    The fact of the matter is this: Harris and Scott make a great duo at ILB. We will try to bring back Harris as long as his demands aren't outrageous. Pace, BT and JT are avg passrushers.... BT and JT need to be upgraded.

    The DL will need some new bodies. Ellis and Pryce probably won't be back, and Jenkins can't be counted on. Expect to see major changes in this dept.
     
  8. Miamipuck

    Miamipuck New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2006
    Messages:
    11,429
    Likes Received:
    1
    My bad silly me I thought the Ted LB is the one clearing the way for the "Mike" LB. So he won't make the stat sheets but allows the Mike too.

    Now if you had looked at how other TED LB's are paid in relation to Bart Scott people may put more credence in what you are saying.

    But you simply lose credibility by saying Bart Scott doesn't make big plays. Bart grades out as the top ILB this year against the run in the entire NFL. He wasn't #1 last year but was in 2008.
     
  9. klecko73

    klecko73 Guest

    Plus there is no way that Harris is going to get $10 million a year.
    He may top off at $8 million per year max, but my guess is something like $7-$7.5 million per year.

    You pay the guy that makes the plays, not the guy riding shotgun with a big mouth and no play to back it up. The Jets would be better served putting a rookie LB with Harris than keeping both Harris and Scott for a combined total of over $14 million per year (Scott at $6.5 million next year + Harris at assumed $8 million next year). Plus factor in Thomas at $3.7 million next year and Pace at $7 million and the Jets would have a $24 million LB corp -the problem is they aren't going to get $24 million worth of production. Cutting Pace isn't an option this year, and Thomas + Scott save almost $6 million on the 2011 cap if they go. This is a no-brainer and the right move to make when you look at the totality of the team's salary cap structure.
     
  10. BadgerOnLSD

    BadgerOnLSD Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2004
    Messages:
    15,188
    Likes Received:
    3
    It's all because they ate cheeseburgers on the field during training camp. God damnit.
     
  11. James Hasty

    James Hasty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    15,902
    Likes Received:
    5,133
    I don't want to release anyone. I want to keep the guys we have locked up with low salaries and signing bonuses that will accelerate against the cap if we do cut them.

    I am not so sure I want to pay $8-10 mil for a free agent ILB when that money could be used to keep Edwards, Cromartie, and Holmes or to sign a stud (Ngata, Woodley, etc.).
     
  12. ukilledkenny

    ukilledkenny You bastards!

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,343
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you suggested somewhere in that post that Scott needs to go I am glad I didn't read the whole thing.
     
  13. klecko73

    klecko73 Guest

    You can't have a situation where 20% of the teams salary cap structure is locked up in 4 players that aren't producing. I understand what Bart's role is but he is overpaid for his production and when it mattered most, in the AFCG, he missed 4 big tackles - something he is paid to do and didn't. As for his grading out as the best ILB against the run, if you have a link I would love to see those stats - and most importantly compare that to his peers and their salaries.

    The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Bringing these same 4 guys back isn't the answer. Moving on without BT is easy because he is on the last year of his contract. The Jets would take almost a $2 million cap by cutting Pace and I just don't see that happening. That leaves Harris and Scott. Harris is the playmaker who makes the big plays in a similar role as Ray Lewis (I am not saying that Harris is better or even as good as Lewis, just that they play the same role). Scott is an UDFA who Rex developed into the player he is. If you have confidence in your coaching staff, then it is easy to see that the easier guy to replace is Scott as the coaches have already done that before. The Ravens haven't seemed to miss a beat and they replaced Scott this year with another UDFA in Jameel McClain who had almost the same level of production at a fraction of the cost.
     
  14. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    26,284
    Likes Received:
    20,777
    I'm going to re-watch the 1st half of the Pitt game before I read this thread.

    I think that'll tell me a lot.
     
  15. ukilledkenny

    ukilledkenny You bastards!

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,343
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just gotta throw this in the arena. You don't blow up the third ranked defense in the league. You re-tool it.
     
  16. nyjetsrule

    nyjetsrule Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Messages:
    10,379
    Likes Received:
    7
    You keep saying Scott missed 4 key tackles in the AFCCG, how many did Harris miss, because I honestly think that it was his worst game in green and white.

    Scott is overpaid, but you can't argue with grading out as the best at what he does in the NFL 2 out the past 3 years. That shows he is playing extremely well overall.

    You mention bringing them back and hoping for different results is the definition of insanity, well changing 4 defensive starters, instead of 5 is still enough change to avoid the definition of insanity. We need to upgrade positions but removing scott removes the best player at his position in the NFL which opens up a hole that we can't likely fill...
     
  17. dcm1602

    dcm1602 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    4,895
    Likes Received:
    0
    Scott is not getting cut.

    Its not even going to be considered
     
  18. Cakes

    Cakes Mr. Knowledge 2010

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    20,810
    Likes Received:
    232
    I suppose it is possible he graded out very well, but who did the grading and where can this stuff be found?
     
  19. JoeWillie130

    JoeWillie130 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2003
    Messages:
    4,362
    Likes Received:
    55
    Agreed Scott getting cut is not happening. Other than that there's nothing mentioned above that's too crazy. I don't think that's really blowing up the defense but more like tweaking it.
     
  20. Johnny English

    Johnny English Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    2,403
    Likes Received:
    44
    I've said it before but I'm happy to say it again - I like what Scott brings to the team, but I hate how much it costs to do it. I'd love to keep him and find a way to restructure his contract.
     

Share This Page