Brady isnt a choke artist, but he definately isnt the same person he was in 01-04. When he gets hit he seems to get nervous and it really affects him.
I'm saying that the relationship between quarterbacks and wide receivers is a two way street. How could Brady be considered one of the best ever if he didn't make his receivers into good "weapons"? Someone has to catch his "clutch" passes. Manning is a great QB because he has great receivers, but his receivers are great because they play with the greatest QB of all time. This might be a bit over a Jets fan's head.
Sounds like a way of excusing the fact that Manning has had better weapons in his career than Brady has. Brady won three Super Bowls with no-names, went 16-0 with Moss, then they cut Moss in the middle of the year and go 14-2.
We're not on the same page. The Patriots are a completely different type of team than the Colts. The Patriots, especially in their Super Bowl runs could play a smashmouth, move the chains, defensive style, while the Colts were a finesse passing team that had to play outdoor playoff games in freezing temperatures and snow. Now bear with me for a second before you say the Colts are pussies and that's no excuse. For the Colts to win, Manning needs to play lights out most of the time, all of the pressure is on him, he can't lean on a running game that might get him 150 yards or a defense that is going to cause turnovers and 3 and outs. Brady can lean on a running game and stiff defense and can win a game going 16/25 for 190 yards and 1 TD, Manning can't get away with that 9 times out of 10. Manning needs to go 35/40 for 300 and 3 TDs for the Colts to have the best shot at winning because of the way that team is built. Guys like Harrison and Wayne and Clark needed to catch 8 balls for 90 yards and a TD which is why they are considered "potent weapons". Brady's receivers only need to catch 6 balls for 40 yards to win games. You probably still won't like what I just said but hopefully you get my point a little better.
Throwing in jabs at this fanbase (over your jets fans heads) isn't helping. Brady has turned receivers into weapons: perhaps you've heard of guys like Randy Moss and Wes Welker. Sure Randy Moss was great at Minnesota but he did fuck all at Oakland. Wed Welker was an UDFA and an average receiver at Miami before Brady turned him into the greatest slot receiver in the league. (see also: gronkowski, branch, hernandez, woodhead) Brady may not be able to make the same throws Manning does down the field but he's brilliant at running the Patriots offense. May not be flashy and highlight worthy but he drives his team down the field and puts up a shitload of points. It's like comparing a dunk and a 10 foot jump shot in basketball. One may look a hell of a lot better than the other but its two points all the same. TDs are TDs, Brady and Manning both score a bunch of 'em. This board more than any other team in the league would criticize Brady because that fucking team has raped the Jets for about a decade. I'll take any opportunity I/we can to knock the guy but it's pretty stupid to say Manning is head and shoulders above Brady. Coaching or not, Brady has piloted the Patriots to a bunch of superbowl wins this past decade.
I DESPISE Brady and all things Boston related but I can also be honest in my evaluations. What did manning do when he led his prolific, record setting offense into postseason in 2004? he led them to THREE points in a DIVISIONAL round loss. No SB, no great drive to give his D the lead in the final minutes- he led them to THREE points! Brady has 3 rings b/c he is by far the best QB of his generation, Manning has one b/c his D and running game carried him in 2006. NE was a sinking ship when Brady took over, they were getting worse every year, they were 5-11 the year before and started 0-2 before Brady rescued them. There were already rumblings about belichick's job early in 2001. Manning never had a weapon like Moss, Brady had him for ONE healthy year and he set records and led his team to 16-0. 2007 was the lone year where Brady had weapons comparable to what Manning has had his entire career. How can one choke when they lead a team 80 yds for a TD in the final minutes of the SB? or when he leads his offense to 27 pts w/ reche Caldwell and jabar Gaffney as his top 2 WRs? Last year he sucked, against denver in '05 he sucked but that's 2 games in a postseason career. Peyton has lost NINE playoff games and led his high scoring offense to an AVERAGE of just 14 PPG in those losses w/ all those incredible weapons around him. Imagine Peyton trying to win w/ Gaffney and Caldwell as his main weapons:rofl: Did you know that Indy's D's have actually allowed LESS points in regulation w/ manning vs/ the "great" NE D's w/ Brady? W/ manning it is always a new excuse but the bottom line is he hasn't stepped up in the biggest games just like last year when he threw away his teams chance to win the SUPER BOWL. Manning this year w/ all the injuries STILL has comparable weapons to what Brayd has. Brady has all average players around him, he doesn't have a Reggie Wayne to throw to. Peyton has as many INTs returned for TDs as Brady has thrown INTs all year. yep and no one has ever dropped a Peyton manning INT, right? They don't have one now, they did up until about 10 years ago or so. The pats went 10-5 w/ Cassell as the starter in 2008 against one of the easiest scheds ever assembled, compare that w/ 16-0 vs. a much tougher sched the year before w/ Brady. That is a HUGE difference. NE vs. playoff bound teams in 2007: 6-0, avg. margin of victory? 20 PPG NE vs. playoff bound teams in 2008: 1-4, avg. margin of defeat? 18 PPG
I'd be interested to see what Manning and Brady would be like if they had to switch home stadiums and divisions. You have to consider that Peyton gets to play nine games indoors and the coldest divisional game they will play is in Nashville. Look through Indy's schedules over the last decade. You can count their December cold weather games on one hand, and their record isn't very good. Leave Tom Brady out of it. Give Aaron Rogers and indoor venue and warm weather and see what you get.
Here's a cool article from ESPN posted today. Too long to past in. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmonsnfl2010/week18picks&sportCat=nfl
I was just going to post this, it was a great article. I'm a huge Simmons fan and I thought he did a good job putting his bias aside.
Oh absolutely. Take him away from slap-dick players like Marvin Harrison, Edgerin James, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, and no-names like Jeff Saturday and Tarik Glenn and he'd be a 6-time champion. Especially if he was throwing to sure-fire hall-of-famers like David Givens, David Patten, Jermaine Wiggins, and Christian Fauria. Is this "PMBestEver" from the Colts boards? If not, you guys should get together, have a few beers, and exchange Manning mouth-hugs for a few hours.
How could any players expect to win w/ such awful talent?:rofl: Imagine peyton trying to win w/ reche Caldwell and jabar gaffney as his 2 main weapons? They are throwing a parade for him for leading a team w/ Reggie Wayne and Pierre Garcon in a crappy division, just imagine if he ever had talent like Brady had to work w/.
Now you are ignoring other things though, like the way better defense NE has had and running game. Sure there was one year where Brady had bad weapons, but every single other year the talent on his offense has been on par or better than Manning'. And Brady's offense has always been more balanced, there's no question.
The "way better" NE defenses which have allowed MORE points in regulation than those "awful" Indy D's and those great running teams w/ Antowain Smith vs/ that scrub Edgerrin James!
Haha I am only having this debate in one thread. Forget that first post. But you are picking names, and not looking at the overall body of work by the RB cores. You can say Smith all you want, but if you don't mention Faulk you are fooling yourself. You can't just "not count" him.
Smith averaged 3.86 YPC and 927 yds a season from 2001-2003 Faulk averaged 38 recs and 336 yds rec from 2001-2003 Edge from 1999-2005(removing 2001 b/c he was hurt) averaged 1427 rush yds on 4.2 YPC and 55 recs and 441 yds a season receiving Which was better?
