I replied to a few posts when I first joined. for a while I did not feel the urge to respond to posts. Does this make me less of a jet fan, or knowledgeable about football? Just curious because this seems to be the question on everyone's mind since I have decided to begin posting.
Abraham had a string of shitty streaks at Atlanta. Often injured. He has averaged less than 30 tackles and 10 sacks per year with Atlanta. During that time Ellis has averaged 5.8 sacks and 34.6 tackles per year. Abraham isn't all that. He's having a good year. Abraham is averaging 4 more sacks per year and 5 fewer tackles per year vs. Ellis after the trade. Don't make it sound like Abraham is a beast DE. He isn't. If Ellis were playing in a 4-3, who is to say he would not have matched Abraham's sack numbers? Or even surpassed him? One thing is for sure.... we will need to draft a 3-4 DE or get one in FA if Ellis goes. His play has dropped off some this year, won't argue that point.
I really hope we are able to bring Ellis back on the cheap so that he can train our young DE's that we are sure to bring in. Ellis is our best DL now, and while it's likely he won't be next year, he still will have some valuable knowledge to pass on to our young guns. Props to the Big Katt for being around for so long, here's to hoping we can get the man a ring!
Shaun Ellis has 13 forced fumbles over the course of his career in which he's played most every game. John Abraham has 34 in a career which he's missed many more games. Ellis is a better tackler and run protector, but Abe is a playmaker.
I was under the impression that you have to have a certain amount of posts per year to maintain your membership on the boards?No big deal though.
Abraham has 14 FF since the trade, Ellis 6 over 5 years. You also have to again factor in that Abraham plays in a 4-3, while Ellis is in a 3-4. Sacks, which lead to fumbles are much more spread out amoungst the front seven in a 3-4. Abraham's job is sacks. The first job of the front 3 in a 3-4 is to occupy blockers so the forth apss rusher can apply the pressure. When both were 4-3 DE's on the Jets, Abraham had 53.5 sacks in 6 years. Ellis has 43.5. Is Abraham the better pass rusher? Yes, but it's not like Ellis was dogmeat. There was and is no great chasm in talent between the two. Keep in mind too, that Ellis got his stats playing LDE. Abraham from RDE. I don't have to explain what that means, do I? Ellis has to go up against a tackle and a TE. Abraham only has to beat the LT. He should get more sacks from RDE.
I just think Abraham makes more plays that wins games and is more valuable. If you think the opposite, more power to you.
Not the opposite... when the Jets went to a 3-4 Abraham had no position to play. He's no 3-4 DE. He's a superior pass rushing 4-3 DE. If he were still here, he'd be playing OLB like Pace, who is a converted DE. Or like a Suggs on Baltimore. I don't think he'd be good in that role. Maybe... but I think he would have demanded to be traded anyway, he would have been whining incessantly as a 3-4 OLB. He's much more like a Freeney, a dedicated 4-3 pass rush guy. Freney couldn't play in a 3-4 either.
See. I disagree with this. Admittedly, I never played the game, but you're saying a 6 time pro-bowler and a member of the NFL 2000 all decade team would be rendered moot if were traded to a team that utilized a 3-4 instead of a 4-3? I find that hard to believe. His job is to grab guys and throw them to the ground.
Geeze.... first you said I think the opposite of you. That was incorrect. Then you tell me I said he would be rendered "moot". WTF? I said nor implied no such thing. Do not exagerate my comments to make your arguement more credible. That's weak. In a 3-4, he would be used like a Pace, or a Jayson Taylor. That would not be the best use of his talent set. He isn't a power rusher, he's a speed rusher. He rarely throws anyone around 'cepting for QB's. I don't know if he'd be any good in coverage at OLB in a 3-4 either, a requirment to play the position. No 3-4 based team would have traded for him either. He was far too expensive to be striclty a 3rd down pass rush specialist. His maximum value is at DE in a 4-3, period. Beating one blocker, not occupying two as often is the case in a 3-4 scheme. The REASON he was traded, aside from his "injury" antics and stupid comments regarding same in big games was because he's a 4-3 DE. It really isn't that hard to understand. Does everyone forget how he bailed on this team in big games? Puking on the sidelines, perhaps (likely) from a hangover, and leaving a game with a knee injury he could have played on, but stated he was more worried about staying healthy for his big payday? Short memories some of you have. This guy needed a change of scenery. Much like Vilma did, being unable to adapt to the 3-4 defense. He also now plays in a scheme that maximizes his potential, MLB in a 4-3 too. Defensive schemes aren't Madden plug and plays. Some player's talent sets are better suited to one scheme or the other. Some few can play in any, like Ray Lewis, but they are few and far between.
I agree we needed to get rid of Abraham, but we never found out if he could adapt to the 3-4 defense or not.
I agree. We'll never know for sure, but he does not fit the mold of either a 3-4 DE or a 3-4 OLB. Might he have been able to adapt? Perhaps but I doubt it, particularly given his very prima donna attitude at the time.
String of excellent posts. Better said than I could have, TBJ. Some people have short memories. Some folks just like the flash of lightning, cause it looks cool. In the end we got us a damn solid pick in exchange. Even if it breaks some hearts, that is the kind of dealing that makes a team better in the end.
