I'm not gonna shit on the Pats because their method appears to be working (now), but to me, it just sounds like they're pretty lousy at scouting/rating talent. It's almost like finding 1-3 good to great prospects in a Draft with 7 tries is not good enough...they need 12-13 tries to find them. In the last 2 years, it's taken them about 4 Drafts to find...what? 5-7 solid to good players?
So, i just want to clarify: I think BB and RR are both good coaches. Both have acquired talent in various ways, and both have translated that into wins. Between those two things, i don't think there is much else a coach can be asked to do (although superbowls are nice...) I simply wanted to counter what I thought was a stupid argument that BB is not a great coach because of several misses in recent drafts. He probably finds as much value in later rounds and undrafted players as any other coach (which I would argue is the harder thing to do). When he does make mistakes he quickly moves past them and never looks back. You can probably think of dozens of example of coaches who fail to do this. I would argue that Gholston, Ginn Jr., Jamarcus Russel, etc. are bigger draft "busts" than BB has ever had in his career, because of the extent to which they dragged down their teams during their tenures. All of those players filled starting roles for extended periods of time despite undeserving performance. With BB, "busts" like chad jackson, maroney, butler etc. are given limited chances to reprove their potential, and if they don't they are out the door. They don't occupy key positions in the team simply because of their draft status. I agree that RR has had very little chance to prove anything in drafts so far, but I still think that if you are going to compare the two BB wins by a mile. The seymores, wilforks, branches, mccourtys, ty warrens, faulks, mankins, etc. far outweigh a few chad jacksons and maroneys over the course of his career, even if a few of them came in a short stretch. Bottom line is, judging coaches on draft success alone is stupid, and I just spent way too much time writing this
In the mid 2000's they had almost no spots for young players! It made more sense to bring in a bunch of late round picks just to practice or look at. Ironically, they seem to be doing a little better with nick Cesario running the personnel than they did with Pioli his last few years. Now that they know they need to draft for roster help.... they bring in guys that are contributing. 2010- McCourty, Gronkowski, Spikes, Hernandez, Mesko, Deadrick... 2009- Chung, Brace, Vollmer, Pryor, Edelman, Tate, Butler 2008- This was a thin year, Mayo, Wilhite, Slater (Crable couldn't stay healthy, Wheatley got pushed out at DB) 2007- Merriweather, Welker, Moss
I agree, but our strategy has been proven over time to be sustainable. The jets became relevent just last year, and are already looking to have major difficulty resigning some of their key talent. The difference in the two scenarios that you gave me is that the 2nd rounder will come at a much higher cost in terms of $$$.
Jets were 8-3 in 2008 before Favre had that bicep injury. Favre stays healthy who knows how that season ends. The Jets strategy has been working recently since they solidified several starting sports on the team, especially on offense. We have no way of knowing if the Jets will have difficulty signing back players. Shit, there may not even be a salary cap in the new CBA. 2nd rounders don't make a lot of money. I think a normal 4 year contract has 2-3 million guaranteed over the life of the contract.
Okay, but if we call 2008 a success and assume you guys win the SB this year, it still doesn't convince me I'm wrong. Many teams have 3-4 good years then fade back into mediocrity (Arizona for example). The fact that the pats have avoided this for 10 years (and should for at least a few more) is an exception to the rule, certaintly not the norm. Jets only had 4 draft picks last year, none of whom have had a great impact (even though i know you guys love the terminator). They are also missing a 3rd in this years draft. These moves add to the talent of your starting roster, but I really do believe that they will hurt your future talent level as well as your current depth. In my biased view, it already seems like you guys are struggling to find depth where injuries have occurred. (kris jenkins, jim leonard, shaun ellis, james ihedigbo)
The salary cap issues can be all but thrown out for teams that have upper echelon QB's. The two teams that have been most successful at avoiding any slip towards mediocrity are the Pats and the Colts. I don't think it is a coincidence that they also have the two best QB's of the last decade.
The thing that bugs me the most is how the NFL destroyed the tapes before anyone else could see them. I think they should've been at least been shown to some outsider, or media outlet. To destroy them proves to me that the NFL was covering up something, it would have been a nightmare asking for trophies back or basically having no winner for those Super Bowls. During the NFL "investigation" they never contacted Walsh, who said he had info about this topic that would've been bad for both the NFL and the Pats. Specter- "I don't think you have to have a law broken to have a legitimate interest by the Congress on the integrity of the game. … What if there was something on the tapes we might want to be subpoenaed, for example? You can't destroy it. That would be obstruction of justice," Specter said to The Times. Also the Commissioner said he didn't realize Specter wanted a meeting, but as soon as the evidence (tapes & notes) were destroyed he suddenly called Specter to arrange the meeting. This has never sat well with me but at this point what can be done, nothing. Pats fans will defend their team to the grave and fans viewing without bias will always view their SB winnings tainted, especially their first one. Getting back to Walsh, the rumor was that Walsh did in fact speak with Tagliabue and since he was leaving his position he did not want to taint the end of his own career. Now Walsh is a golf pro the Ka'anapli Golf Resort in Lahaina, Hawaii. Seems extremely odd to me, almost like a permanent paid vacation.
What a pathetic baseless thread. The timing was great tho. Right before the game. When they win-Cheated...If the Patriots lost-We beat their cameras. While you Jets fans digest that epic beat down let me play the conspiracy theory game as well. Steve Scarnecchia-Former Jet employee, known best as a video vigilante. The media ignores his ties to the Jets because their pathetic even when cheating. Your former coach Mangini loved cam corders, but it's only the Patriots........ Read this article and learn something about Spygate from a rival coach.. Type in Bill Cowher on Spygate... The Spygate investigation included two victories over Cowher's Steelers in the '01 and '04 AFC Championship Games. Cowher seems to absolve the Patriots for any wrongdoing. "Listen, there's people stealing signals all the time before that," Cowher said. "You have ways to hide those things. We had wristbands for our defense. I remember trying to get offensive plays and see what the formations were. Everybody knows. "You're trying to gain a competitive edge. Did that go beyond it? To a degree. Do I think that helped them win football games? No. You still have to go out and play the game. I still have a hard time believing that was a difference in a game."
Just off the top of my head, the teams that make me think of bursting onto the scene than fading into oblivion are teams that have older quarterbacks. The Jets have solidified that position for years to come. As he gets better, he'll be good enough to guarantee something in the way of wins/playoff appearances. Safety depth is a problem. We were thin at the position to start. As far as I know Ellis is not injured. Jenkins replacement is Pouha who's done a solid job.
Cool story bro. The NFL thought it was such a minor infraction that they docked the Patriots/Belichick half a million dollars, a first round draft pick and destroyed all the evidence. Not saying the Patriots dynasty was built on spygate but don't get all defensive about it. The Patriots fucked up and got caught.
Not entirely a bad point about the timing of the article, but here's the thing. Neither you, nor me, nor Bill Cowher really knows what's on those tapes because the league (the one that is indirectly responsible for Cowher's current highly lucrative cush job, by the way) destroyed the tapes before we could all know with the kind of certainty that you think you have that they were no advantage for the Pats. That is downright Nixonian behaviour. The tapes could have had a lot more damning evidence than Cowher or Jimmy Johnson think. People don't destroy evidence when it will conclusively prove they have nothing to hide. And when you do destroy evidence, you have to live with the presumption that the evidence was damaging. The league destroyed the evidence. The league has a vested interest in suppressing evidence that its marquee franchise of the last decade wasn't cheating. Is that what motivated the league to destroy the tapes? It certainly sounds a lot more realistic than Goodell needing room in his closet for another pair of loafers, doesn't it? That's why there is a conspiracy theory.
What do you people expect to find on those tapes? If Goddel wanted a cover up then why punish a team with such harsh fines? Destroying those tapes damaged the Patriots much more than draft picks ever could. Now every tinfoil hatter thinks they recorded a holy trinity play book. Cowher would be the first one outrageded by taping, but instead he admits his own wrong doing. Jimmie Johnson has admitted the same. NFL coaches know more than complete outsiders.
If they were innocent Specter would've seen the tapes and notes as requested by the US Government. It must've been so damaging that it would've required action that the NFL had never had to do and would've hurt the league while it was becoming America's number 1 sport. Or it was Tom & Bill taking each other anally.
Ask your lawyer what the term "spoliation" means. Seriously, there's a real good reason why people don't destroy evidence. And I agree with you, it probably had to have been pretty bad to damage the Patriots with the innuendo that destroying it created. Just give me one good, plausible reason why you would destroy the tapes. Until someone can do that, the cloud is going to be there. Don't blame the victim.
Why should that be on the Patriots?? They do not have control over a commish. Roger is in the wrong here not them.
Child, please. Who was the league trying to protect? Really, you're not this myopic are you? The league has a huge vested interest in sweeping spygate under the rug. And, I'll let you in on a little secret, it has nothing to do with tiny Patriots fans' bloated sense of self-esteem vicariously obtained via rooting for a collection of mercenaries from somewhere else (many of whom happen to be of a certain racial characteristic that the greater Boston region is so noted for celebrating). This has to do with a multi-billion dollar industry that is premised on people spending money watching, rooting AND GAMBLING!!!! on outcomes that are not supposed to be certain. Then along comes a spider and lo and behold, he and the marquee franchise whose web he spins have been ILLEGALLY AFFECTING THOSE OUTCOMES. That is a fucking disaster, bro, and if you are the head of a multi-billion dollar industry, you don't let that see the light of day if you can help it. I notice you never answered the question. Give me one good, rational reason the league would destroy the tapes if they were completely innocuous.
Now you have completely lost your mind. What does Patriot players ethnicity/race have to do with anything? When Jet fans rooted for Crebet did anyone claim racism? Talk about off topic delusion. This cover up theory is pure foolishness considering the Patriots were heavily fined and ridiculed since the incident. What could possibly be on those tapes that could ruin them any more than they have? Instead of listening to former coaches and most pundits you create this alternate universe where the tapes take down an NFL empire. That is crazy considering no one but Roger has seen them. But of course he wants to cover it up and allow millions to produce false information and misinformation. When has Spygate ever been swept under the rug? Ask Roger why he destroyed them... I know... they contained the matrix of football. A madden cheat code that allows a Patriot team to succeed. Even tho without those tapes they keep on winning.
Come on kid, you aren't stupid. For the third time, give us a plausible reason. It'll be as good as any explanation I can come up with as far as being the truth, precisely nbecause none of us know what was on something that no longer exists. You just need to come up with a reason. Have at it.
