pure conjecture on your part. how do we know that coaching staff is keeping him from touches? now let me first state that is completely hypothetical and i don't believe it for a second... but prove it wrong.
Seriously? I brought up the fact that he stepped into the one significant role he has been asked to fill and did the job well. I guess I need to spell it out more for you. When Cole got hurt the Jets needed a gunner and McKnight was trusted to do the job. He stepped in and did that job well so obviously he has progressed enough to gain the trust of Westhoff, not something that a guy who doesn't work gets just ask Clowney. How you twisted that to me talking about those 4 carries is beyond me. Yet again you prove that your opinion of yourself isn't justified at all.
The terminator provides something on special teams that a scat back cannot. We have 3 guys getting carries - what is any scat back going to provide that they don't?
damnit! I ws hoping I caught that before you got me.:grin: Shonn is contributing on O though, right? So you think the CS belives McKnight can contribute right now yet they aren't playing him? What about him? I am not asking for McKnight to get touhes, I am making the point that if he was ready he'd be getting touches. the seminole has been ineffective for a while now, if he was ready he'd be getting some of those touches. He plays 1-2 games on STs and nopw that is a significant role? They had so many options when Cole got hurt, didn't they?
i can avoid the direct question and pose another silly question as a retort too. fact is... its conjecture. what i believe is irrelevant bc neither you nor i can prove it. which is why you believe you haven't been proven wrong... bc you post conjecture and opinions and label them as fact. i mean seriously... we're going on like 5 pages now of where you are just arguing bc you're too immature to let a point go without seeming to be right on the subject.
It's common sense. Coaches are in the business of WINNING, if they feel they have a player who is ready to help them win they will play them. It's not that hard to figure out.
common sense can't be delegated junc. you can insult my intelligence all you want. fact is, you're not in the locker room. yes coaches are in the game of winning... but is he ready to help them win at RB? more so than the 4 they put ahead of him?? i don't think so.
I am not insulting your intellignece, if that is the way you are taking it that is your problem. There are 2 guys ahead of him not 4 but if he was ready to help us win he'd be playing if there were 6 guys ahead of him.
During those games, yes. Gunner is a significant roll to a team. If he sucked at it that could very well lead to a punt return touchdown. Funny how when a guy does his job his spot isn't thought to be that important but holy hell I wonder what you would be like if he had missed a tackle that lead to TD when he did get a chance. Nobody is trying to crown him as anything other than a guy with great potential that has shown that he is looking to improve. I don't know how good he would be right now if he got a chance... my point is that neither do you. It is easy for you to say he would be nothing based on how we saw him 4 months ago. 4 months may not seem like that much time to you but it is more than enough to show improvement in every area that he struggled. Has he shown that improvement? I don't know because I don't go to practice. I do know that he seems to have gotten better since then or else he would have never been trusted to see the field. How far has he progressed? at this point only the coaches know but to act like anyone believing that it is possible that he has shown a good amount of improvement and still isn't seeing the field is ridiculous would be ridiculous on your part. There are so many play makers on offense that should be getting precedent over Joe McKnight it's insane. Even if he does possess some type of play making ability he has the following to compete with. Santonio Holmes, Braylon Edwards, Dustin Keller, Ladanian Tomlinson, Jerricho Cotchery, Shonn Greene and Brad Smith. By my count that makes McKnight at best the 8th option no matter how good or bad he is right now. How many teams get 8 different guys the ball each game? I doubt it's very many and if one exists they certainly don't have a 2nd year QB distributing the ball.
"its not that hard to figure out" implies superiority junc, with the amount of word-smithery you throw around here, its not surprising your subtle arrogance goes unnoticed with you. having said he is playing ST. he's not playing RB. so by your very last post, and by how you twist shit around, he is ready to help us win. now that's all childlishly simple and good for an argument... but in reality expecting a player in his first year to perform well enough to take touches away from a future HOF'r and our primary power back is pretty unrealistic imho. here's where we disagree. i do expect a last word from you however, so go for it.
That's one way to look at it. The other way is that the other guys have been doing a job making plays all season that it wouldn't be fair to them to take their touches away. Your previous point about the Seminole is fair, I think you pointed out in another thread that it hasn't been that effective but they have been using it less overall. Yeah McKnight could probably take those touches but considering that the Seminole a)has had previous success and b)it's being used less maybe the CS figures "yeah we could give McKnight a small nominal amount of carries or we could stick with Smith who's made plays out of the seminole".
Sooo how many big PRs were we allowing before the great Joe Mcknight stepped in and saved our season? What is going on is guys are trying to pump him up to be better than he is b/c they are trying to rationalize using a 4th rd pick and letting Leon go. I hope this guy is a major contributor in the future but this season he's done almost nothing besides gte lucky w/ a short punt glancing off the player that was blocking him. It is easy for me to say he looked terrible a few months back, that's the only footage we have of him b/c he is NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO GET INTO A REGULAR SEASON GAME IN MEANINGFUL ACTION. How do yo know he sems to have gotten better when we haven't seen him play? he hasn't seen the field, they put him in on STs to cover punts(only after a million injuries), he's a return man- have they trusted him to return K's/P's? I agree, McKnight should not be getting touches on offense. My point all along has been if he was good enough and showing enough they'd find a way to get him touches whether it's on STs or on offense. perfect example, we have a very good PR but in certain situations we also put Kyle wilson back there b/c he has shown the coaches something and they think he can make a big play for us on PRs. If Mcknight showed anything he'd either get that opportunity or they'd put him back on KR's w/ Brad every once in a while to get him some touches like they have for Wilson. I apologize that I know what I am talking about and therefore have confidence when I post. I would only want him to get touches if he was ready and there's no doubt if he was the coaches would find a way to get him a few touches per game.
junc let's stop pretending that we both haven't been on this board for a decade and we aren't aware of each other. That level of ignorance is simply not believable, even from you. I wasn't bashing you for complaining about losing Wright, I was pointing out one of the many, many examples of you being a hypocrite. That's the behavior that completely strips you of any credibility, and turns you into a clown. junc, you have so many people 'coming at you' because you display masochistic behavior, and it's just blood in the water. Eric Smith is a backup on any team with a legitimate strong safety. He's a fantastic utility player (see: Brad Smith, James Ihedigbo, Wallace Wright) but he is a liability as a full time starter, as we see Eric Smith has been in recent weeks when his playing time increased. His number of starts don't speak to his ability as a starter, they speak to how thin we still are at safety. That's a weak qualification to your argument, as usual. Leon, before he left, was a dynamic kick returner third down back. The Jets signed Tomlinson to replace the 3rd down back responsiblities and it seems that they already knew they had the goods with Brad Smith as a return man, if you listen to Westhoff's weekly pressers and you look at the progress Smith had made in late 2009. They drafted McKnight as a developmental player to take over when Brad Smith either goes the way of Wallace Wright or gets a more defined role in the offense, and to take over third down responsiblities when Tomlinson either leaves or retires. This seems to be a reality that you are incapable of grasping. Look out, junc, an actual, bona-fide person almost peeked out from behind this last part. There's no problem with being concerned, as long as you are truly understanding the situation. The only problem is, you aren't.
:rofl::rofl::rofl: You're alright, junc, regardless of what they say about you. I got a good laugh out of that.
I didn't say I don't know who you are but I don't commit your posts to memory and I wouldn't know if you even particpated in the BS Bowl let alone who you were matched up w/. Show me one example of being hypocritical? it's great that you can throw around accusations but where am I being hypocritical? I realize why I have many people attacking me, I have strong opinions and that bothers people. I don't mind, I love arguing. I just prefer peope coming at me w/ their facts lined up attacking my argument rather than being childish and attacking me but I can handle it either way. We have a top 5 D and he's starting for us so he must be ok. I know he's much more valuable than McKnight and he played and contributed on D as a rookie. I don't love Eric Smith out there as a starter but the man has been a contributor his entire career. I 100% understand the reasons the Jets traded leon, I was fine w/ that. My problem was I think we gave him away for nothing and we drafted McKnight to replace him long term and he has shown us nothing. if he showed flashes I'd feel alot better but he showed us nothing. The problem is I have so many people coming at me that the arguments change. have always understood why we traded leon, I hated losing a good player and good person but I understood it based on the injury. That has never been my complaint and I have also never said to get rid of McKnight, I am simply countering those that are telling me that he is improving as we have no idea if he has improved since he hasn't been on the field. It also morphs into a Leon vs. Brad Smith thing, I NEVER said a bad word about Brad. I have always been happy w/ Brad, I know he can return kicks but I also know leon is a better KR but I appreciate everything Brad does and I am really happy he is a Jet and he has done a great job on KRs this year to the point where we do not miss Leon on KRs.
If McKnight turns out to be 'nothing', we traded nothing for nothing. Leon hasn't contributed anything this season that we haven't been able to replace, and trading him saved us a roster spot. McKnight has actually done more as far as a replacement is concerned by filling in for Cole at a position of greater need with Smith's productivity, and McKnight's contributed VERY little to the team. That should tell you how little we needed Leon this season. FTR, I'm getting an error when I try to search (something about allocating memory), but I'm fairly certain you did NOT initially understand the reasons for trading Leon, and in fact fought arguments to the contrary. It's just another reason of your consistent push to re-form arguments and pretend prior ones didn't exist rather than admit to being wrong. Ha! You asked abyzmul for an example of being hypocritical? Here you go! You point out that Leon STILL had a higher average than Smith, which I refuted with the actual stats. You then changed the argument to "well, you should have brought this up last week" and "well, every Jet returner does well". How is that not changing the argument? Again, once I'm able to perform a search (and provided I haven't tired of this by that point), I'll dispute the "that has never been my complaint" line. If I'm wrong about that, I'm wrong. I can accept that. No, but you stated that it was "fact" that Washington was a better returner this year. It's anything BUT fact. It's opinion. I've conceded that I believed Leon was marginally better, but to state that it's PROVEN is arrogant and foolhardy, not to mention insulting to Smith that after everything he's done and how "really happy" you are to have him, you don't feel he's in the same class of return man RIGHT NOW.
Again, I was ok w/ determining leon wouldn't be normal again and trading him away, I hate wasting a pick on McKnight though and I believe part of the reason they felt comortable giving him away was b/c they got McKnight. Find the arguments, I don't change. I was pissed when we initially made the deal b/c we gave him away for nothing. Just like I never bashed Brad Smith and you cannot find those quotes you cannot find quotes of me not understanding the leon deal. That is interesting. When did I say leon still had a higher average? Why must you continue to make things up? I haven't brought up average in 2-3 months. I said Leon is a better return man and he is, remember that he is doing it w/o the benefit of the great Jets STs. Please find the quotes and post links to those posts. I didn't state it was a fact he is better this year, I stated it is a fact he is a better KR. The yard difference per isn't much, leon has proven it throughout his career and has done it w/ 2 different teams. Every KR we put back there has success(Remember Chad Morton, Jonathan Carter- even Cotch had a KR TD!). I have always liked Smith- like I have mentioned many times when the board(you were probably one of them) wanted Smith gone a few years ago I was one of the few that didn't. I don't sway with the wind like alot of you guys. I never bashed Smith, I simply stated he's not as good of a KR as Leon. I'm sorry that offends you so much, I bet it doesn't offend Brad.
