Big deal if Gonzalez and Brown were first round picks. They aren’t playing like they are first round picks. Garcon is good, but he’s not a top level WR and is definitely not why Manning has had success last year or this year. He’s way too inconsistent and drops too many passes. Collie is half the player that Welker is and you call Welker overrated. Collie would be in the league – I never said otherwise – but he would not put up near the numbers he has if he weren’t playing with Manning. The difference between him and Welker is that Welker doesn’t put up the same numbers w/o Moss while Collie wouldn’t put up the same numbers w/o Manning. Garcon, Collie, Tamme, Addai, White, Hart, James are not “some of the best offensive talent in the game” or are they “BETTER than many teams like what NE has.” You are way overrating Garcon and Collie to try and make it seem like without those guys Manning would not nearly be the player he is. But thru the years many receivers have come and gone thru the Colts lineup and put up good numbers while playing with Manning.
But I thought the great Peyton made everyone better? I never called Garcon a top level WR, he has one of those in Wayne but Garcon is a very good NFL WR as is Collie. That's more than enough to have a top WR corps. NE has a couple of TE procspects, an overrated slot WR and nothing else. What Indy has right now is better than what NE has. You are underrating Indy's talent trying to give more credit to Manning.
And he does. Garcon and Collie are beneficiaries of playing with Manning. Gonzalez had a good year with Manning a few seasons ago but can't stay healthy. Donald Brown has been a disappointment. Garcon isn't a "Very" good NFL WR. Neither is Collie. Collie is Welker w/ half the talent. Garcon is inconsistent and drops way too many passes. Who would put a reciever like that in the "Very Good" status? Someone with an agenda. That "Overrated Slot Receiver" is better than Collie who you have as a "very good WR". Can someone say agenda please? Indy's talent is full of mid tier receivers (Garcon and Collie) back up RB's and a backup TE.
OK so when the players do well it's b/c of Peyton, when they struggle it's b/c they aren't good. Hmm, sounds like the old when indy wins it's b/c of peyton and when they lose it's b/c of everyone but Peyton excuse. You do have an agenda, that is blatantly obvious w/ all the excuses you make. Collie has 1 more rec, 147 more yds, averages over 3 yards more per rec and has 3 more TDs in LESS games but of course it's all b/c of peyton. Collie would be in the UFL if it wasn't for peyton!
I'm not the only one who saw the drop early in the game as being costly http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-pierre-garcons-drop-was-games-turning-point/
If you don't think these Colts players benefit from playing with Peyton Manning then you clearly can't give an honest assesment of this topic. What excuses? I give you facts, you give me a bias retort. Collie is the same player as Welker with half the talent. Welker is coming off of a major knee injury. The same type of injury that you have used many times as an excuse for Tom Brady last year. Who said Collie would be in the UFL if it wasn't for Manning?
:rofl:Tony Dungy? There's an an unbiased observer. I love how that one play caused Peyton to tank the rest of the game. They still had the lead and a million chances. I do think he helps make them better as they help make him better. The problem I have is you give Peyton all the credit for the WRs success then if those players struggle it's b/c they aren't good. Amazingly enough Welker was playing much bettre when he had Moss. His knee must have been fine the first few games but now he is feeling it. Welker has so much more talent which is I guess why he went undrafted and collie was a 4th rd pick. Welker has never been anything special, he's a nice player that looked alot better when Moss was there to take all the attention of a defense. Keep the excuse train rolling.
you're fighting a losing battle here, Murrell....not because you're wrong (because you're not)....but because it's junc.
I have said Wayne and Harrison were / are top level receivers. But Manning put them over the top. It's because of Manning that Harrison is going to the HOF and Wayne is a borderline HOF player. Harrison played with a good QB prior to Manning getting there and didn't put up blazing numbers. He's made mediocre receivers like Brandon Stokley a 1,000 yd / 10 TD receiver. What's amazing about Welker is he put up big numbers with Matt Cassel or Tom Brady as the QB. Collie isn't putting up big numbers with anyone else. Brady's numbers have dropped since Moss left as well including completion % and YPA. I guess Brady is overrated afterall. Why do you keep going back to draft status? Is Collie a better receiver than Marques Colston because he was drafted in the 4th and Colston was a 7th round pick. Is Collie better than Rod Smith or Gary Clark? They both went undrafted like Welker did. I guess if draft status means anything (which apparently it does to you) then the silly Manning Brady debate is done with. What excuses have I come up with? Collie is a mid level receiver who isn't nearly as good as Welker. Garcon is inconsistent and drops many passes.
b/c he's wrong AND b/c it's me. and yet he keeps winning despite the lack of talent around him. I hope NE loses every week and he's not in the discussion but through 8 games w/ what he has around him and w/ a team like the Jets in his division to be tied for 1st and tied fort he bext record Brady would deserve it through 8 games.
Wrong about what? I've given you facts. It has nothing to do with you. When I see someone post silly dumb stuff I call them out on it.
hahaha...well, at least you guys are giving me something to read while I wait for this oracle database backup to complete.
Harrison was in his THIRD year when Manning took over and there wasn't any difference btw his first couple of years w/o Manning and year 3 w/ Manning. Collie would put up better #s than Welker if he played w/ Brady b/c he can get down field. he's not just catching 5 yd dump passes all game. You do know that Cassell is the QB for a team leading the AFC West, right? a team w/ the same record as the Colts led by the great Manning, right? yes, Brady is overrated, he only won 3 SBs w/o Moss but Moss made Brady. You were discussing talent, talent wise Collie is right there w/ Welker. What excuses? -The OL -The defense-coaching -STs -the 5 yd rule -Garcon's drop -Wayne running the wrong route -Brady only led his team to FGs to win SBs -Brady dumped the ball off on that great drive -Manning made his talent but when they struggle it's b/c they aren't talented I can go on and on, w/ every one of these discussions we have new excuses pop up. The facts are Peyton is a great reg season QB, probably the best ever BUT when the calendar turns to january and he's playing in big games he comes up small more often than not. The biggest difference btw NE and Indy in the past decade has been the play at QB in Jan/Feb.
You should be calling yourself out then b/c you weak peyton/anti-Brady arguments are filled w/ "silly dumb stuff".
For the record. I agree with Murrell and without reading his posts, while posting with nyjunc, I sort of alluded to Murrell's stance. About the quote above. LOL? Harrison - Rec - Yards - TDs '96 64-836-8 '97 73-866-6 Average: 65.3 rec - 825.33 YDs - 7 TD '98 59-776-7 '99 (Peyton's Rookie Year) 115-1663-12 '00 102-1413-14 Averages: 117.25 rec - 1580.5 YDs - 13 TD '01 109-1524-15 '02 143-1722-11 98 to 99 comparison is bad b/c he only played 12 games but 97 to 99 works.
I won't respond to everything. Just one thing maybe. Collie does not have half the talent of Welker. Collie can actually do things down the field. Welker is better with "extended handoffs" though and is the best running back WR.
Welker can't get down the field? 1:22 disputes that claim http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009112211/2009/REG11/jets@patriots#tab:watch Yeah, I know Cassel is the QB of the AFC West leading Chiefs. He was also the QB that came in when Brady got hurt and led them to a 10-6 record. I was making an example of how awful your argument of Collie being a 4th round pick and Welker being undrafted was. I guess you didn't piece that one together. Collie is not there with Welker
