I guess we can count Julius Jones' 5.3 YPC if we count woodhead? The running games for both QBs have been similar. As a team NE has run it 208-857, 4.1 As a team NO has run it 219-843-3.9 There's not a huge edge and again the weapons those QBs each have gives a huge edge to Brees. Brady has a couple of nice, young TEs and that's it. NO is loaded w/ weapons.
Both teams are doing the same thing on offense...spreading the ball around. Brees and Brady are both prolific at that. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...263-s=PASSING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1 Look at Brees and look at Brady. Brady, except for INTs is behind Brees in all important categories. Both teams are in 2nd place in their divisions. You can't fucking say Brees isn't even in the discussion...that's just absurd.
Brees has only 4 more TDs and EIGHT more INTs, Brees has 12 INTs! He's on pace for 21, MVP's don't throw 21 INTs. NO has played a softer sched too, I love Brees. I think he's great but he's not in the discussion for MVP this year at this point.
Kurt Warner had 22 INTs and was MVP in 2001. Brees in the discussion because we are having the discussion right now and it premises BREES.
Using your logic about ONLY 4 TDs less and 8 more INTs... if Buffalo was winning, Ryan Fitzpatrick would be in the discussion too because he only has 1 less TD and 3 more INTs than Brady. Point being, you can't just trivialize numbers like that.
Tom Brady MVP? He'll always be in the mix because of the weight his name carries, but Rivers is he first half MVP IMO. Clearly, with Manning and Rodgers closely behind. Phil has been carrying that team all season.
I don't recall the specifics of that season but he did lead the best team in the reg season to a 14-2 record and had 36 TDs which is better than Brees is on pace for. Brees does not belong in the discussion for MVP right now, he hasn't done anything to seperate himself from other top QBs like Brady, Rivers or Vick have. A year ago I'd be with you, I think he was robbed of the MVP last year but this year he's not even in the top 10 for MVP candidtates and therefore he's not worth discussing.
Is Buffalo winning? Brady has led his team to the best record in the league w/ a bunch of misfits around him. He has nothing at RB or WR, he has some nice TE prospects and the D is mediocre yet they have the best record in the NFL. That's the definition of an MVP.
I would have said Rivers if his team wasn't under .500 You could throw Rodgers and Manning in the conversation too. I'd go heavier with Rodgers though.
What would make you pick Rodgers over Brady other than hating Brady and NE? Rodgers still has more talent around him on O, has a much better D, had led GB to a lesser record and he has lesser #s than Brady so what is the reasoning for him ahead of Brady?
Can you really blame Rivers for SD's ST woes? He's playing with PS players now and outproducing every other QB in the league not named P. Manning. Guy is a douchebag to the nth degree, but he's my MVP thus far.
He also has a couple of games where he put up big #s in garbage time. He doesn't get blame for the STs TDs allowed against Seattle but he does get blame for Seattle being shut out in the 1st half of that game and needing a huge comback to win AND for not completing the drive to tie it in the 4th qtr.
You never comprehended/acknowledged my original reason. Read the bolded part please. Also, among QBs mentioned (Rivers, P. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, and Brady) none of the teams have especially good run games. Here are their current rankings: 14. San Diego 15. New England 20. Green Bay 24. New Orleans 25. Indianapolis My thinking was that Brees is doing essentially what Brady is doing, with a depleted running game (and according to the numbers a substantially worse run game than NE) and moderately talented WR core. (Don't get me fucking started on the WR of Saints v. New England's, because just how Manning makes his WRs, Brees does the same. So the way I am looking at it is basically, Green Bay, New England, New Orleans, SD, and Indianapolis, in terms of run game...nullify each other. So what's left? QB numbers and team record. The Saints and Pats are essentially even in record. Both are 2nd in their divisions and both have 1 loss in the division (both to the team leading the division). So..numbers-wise...Brees is in the top 3 of the league in the following categories: Attempts (1st), Completions (1st), Completion % (1st), Yards (2nd), TDs (2nd), INTs (2nd - this is a pretty big blemish, I'll give you that but he has almost 40 more attempts than P. Manning who's 2nd in attempts.) Brady in the same category ranks: Attempts (14), Completions (12), Completion % (8), Yards (14), TD (6), INT (27) Plus you also kept saying the Patriots have the best record, but they don't. All I was saying is that if you offer Tom Brady, there are others more qualified and I used Brees as my example. But you got me going by saying Brees isn't even in the discussion and I really don't get it. What are you judging the MVP on? Intangibles? Which goes back to my original bolded point above. I don't know how else to put it.
I think you have to go w/ either Brady or belichick. That team does not ahve alot of talent outside of the QB and whatever talent they do have is young so either the coach or the QB have to get credit. I side w/ the QB b/c I know whatt he coach has done(or hasn't done) w/o that QB in his career. What Brad has done w/ the average to below average talent around him has been amazing. You act like NE has a good running game? They don't run to set up the pass, they pass to set up the run and the only reason they can run at all w/ those 2 stiffs in the backfield is b/c of the respect opponents have for the passing game. Let's look at the top backs for those teams: NE: Green-Ellis 94-385, 4.1 SD: Tolbert 87-395, 4.5(matthews also has 87 carries and avreages 4.4) GB: Jackson 108-460, 4.3 NO: Ivory 78-382, 4.9 Ind: Addai 93-406, 4.4 How is Brees' ground game substantially worse? Ivory, Thomas, Betts and Jones:192-801, 4.2 YPC, Green-Ellis, Woodhead, Taylor: 164-715, 4.4 YPC That is substantially worse? The Saints and Pats are not basically essentially even in record, NE is 6-2, NO is 6-3. NE has the better record and is tied for the div lead, tiebreakers don't really come into play until late in the year. The Patriots DO have the best record, who has a better record than 6-2? Brady has 14 TDs and 4 INTs while leading his O 184 pts in 8 games(23 PPG) Brees has 18 TDs, 12 INts while leading his O to 192 pts in 9 games(21 PPG) So Brady has led his team to a better record and is leading his O to more points. In NO's loss at Cle Brees threw TWO INTs for TDs and they lost by 13, against Ari they lost by 10 and he fumbled inside his own 5 which set up a TD and threw an INT for a TD. Brady is clearly well ahead of Brees at this point and Brees is not even in the discussion. 12 INTs, his turnovers have DIRECTLY led to TWO of their 3 losses, that's not an MVP.
Peyton torched us and was the reason we lost. If you can’t see past your bias then what can I say. Garcon isn’t that great to begin with and missed some time this season due to injury, Addai has been injured and Donald Brown has been a huge disappointment who also has not been able to stay healthy. Manning has been working with the All Time greats like Mike Hart and Javarris James in the backfield. The All Time great TE Jacob Tamme and once in a generation superstar Blair White to go along with future HOF’er Austin Collie who has and will be missing time due to injury. The examples you bring to the table are weak. I mean seriously, who brings up Anthony Gonzalez and Donald Brown as examples of the great talent Peyton Manning has all around them. Your bias is clearly clouding any sane judgment of Manning’s accomplishments this season. I’ll stick around for the humorous response, but I’m going to go under the assumption that you are just pulling everyone’s legs with these ridiculous statements unless you keep insinuating that Donald Brown and Anthony Gonzalez or Pierre Garcon or Austin Collie are the reasons for Manning’s and the Colts success.
Saying the Patriots have the best record in the NFL is misleading when 5 other teams share the same record. You continue to tailor your argument. Never fail. The bottom line is...there are QBs on other teams with the same record as NE, albeit with depleted talent due to injury or completely lacking talent on the roster, better than Brady, statistically. With the exception of Rivers, I've given you 3 other QBs who've done it better -- Manning, Rodgers, Brees. Also, NE has 8 rushing TDs while NO only has 3, a deficit I consider substantial. NE's running game is more effective, according to the statistical categories I'm looking at.
Yep, Peyton played like regular season peyton against us. He was the #1 reason we lost(of course he began to torch us after all the injuries int he secondary). In the SB he reverted back to big game Peyton and cost his team a championship. Addai has missed a game or 2. he still has Wayne and Garcon, he has only played 2 games w/ Clark, Collie will be back and has only missed one game. It's funny, you won't give guys like Garcon and Collie credit b/c they were later rd picks and then you mentione Gonzalaez and brown don't have talent even though they were 1st rd picks- which is it? Keep making those excuses for peyton, after all we all know it wasn the fault of the average talent Reggie Wayne why peyton threw away the SB. How is it misleading? Is there another team that has a better record than NE? The depleted talent on the other teams is still better than what Brady has HEALTHY. The running games are very similar, the differences on D and w/ what the QBs have to throw to is HUGE and yet Brady is leading his O to more points and more wins.
I never mentioned Garcon's, Collie's, Gonzalez's or Brown's draft status. Where did that come from? You can be a late round pick and have talent or a first round bust. I'm not sure where you are going with that. I am basing my statements on facts and from what I've seen. Did you know that Gonzalez has only played 2 games in the last season and a half before you brought him up? Did you know that Donald Brown has been a huge disappointment and can't stay on the field before you brought him up? Garcon is a good receiver but is very inconsistant and drops a ton of passes. Why would you rank him as a top tier receiver? Because he torched Lito Sheppard? Terrible reasoning. Collie is Welker with half the talent. And you think Welker is overrated. So why do you think Collie is so great? My guess (and probably an accurate one) is that your anti Manning bias is the reason why you say that.
You question me saying Gracon is a very talented guy and ignore all the 1st rd picks surrpunding Manning. We know he has elite talent around him when his guys are healthy and even w/ the injuries he has had he STILL has some of the best offensive talent in the game and BETTER than many teams like what NE has. I never said Garcon was a TOP WR, I said he was a very talented guy. the manning fellatio artists will have you believe that Garcon is Stevie Anderson and that poor Peyton only has guys like Wayne and Gracon to throw to. Collie is very good, he's a talented guy. AGAIN, you guys act like Collie is garbage and wouldn't be in the league if not for peyton.
