I was pumped about Revis looking godly again and Flowers sucking yesterday made me think of this thread, I have watched two Chiefs games against the Chargers and Texans and Flowers is good, I just love our CB's, no disrespect dude.
They are all as good, or better, than anything Brayd has to work w/ now and he has Wayne who isbetter than any WR Brayd has ever played w/o besides 2007 Randy Moss. It's comical how poor peyton is being showered w/ praise for having to win w/ talent that is still better than most QBs in the league have to work with.
Your opinion that Wayne is better than Randy Moss is awful at best. Moss is the best receiver of this generation. Moss has made every QB he’s ever played with better. Wayne on the other hand is a good receiver and is made better because he’s played with Manning. Wayne would likely be a very good receiver else where, but he’s not on the level of Moss and wouldn’t put up the same type of numbers else where. Collie, Garcon and Anthony Gonzalez are not better than Wes Welker. I would argue that Deion Branch is better than any of those three and Brandon Tate is right up there as well. Garcon drops many passes and Gonzalez can’t stay on the field long enough to even be considered an NFL player at this point. Collie is a good underneath guy but isn’t near the player that Welker is. Next argument I’m sure you are going to make is Blair White is better than any of the Patriots receivers. It’s amazing how any receiver that the Colts plug in are better than most WRs in the league and that it has nothing to do with Peyton Manning. Manning is just the beneficiary of such great receivers. You bias against Manning is clearly clouding your judgement. Manning is throwing to Blair White, Austin Collie, Pierre Garcon and Jacob Tamme and none of them would be starters else where in the league. Oh wait, Jacob Tamme is the best TE in the league right?
Reggie Wayne is not better than randy Moss when randy Moss tries(2007), Brayd played w/ that Moss for one year and just over 2 years total. Wayne was better than Moss last year and so far this year. Wes Welker is an average player, we are seeing what he can do w/o Moss taking all the attention away from him. 4 games w/o Moss: 18 recs, 138 yds, 0 TDs Average that over 16 games: 72 recs, 552 yds, 0 TDs:rofl: Don't insult my football intelligence by telling me Branch is better than Garcon, Collie or Gonzalez. We saw what deion was capable of w/o Brady. Brady has consistenly had lesser weapons around him and yet he has always found ways to win and has never thrown away a SB! Collie and Garcon are as good, or better, than any WRs on NE's roster as of today and he still has Wayne who is head and shoulders better than any WR on NE's roster. It's funny how you speak of bias yet you are the same person that has tried to diminish Brady leading 2 GW drives to win SBs and made excuses why Manning threw away last years SB.
Are you trying to tell everyone that Collie and Garcon would be as good if they played anywhere else than Indianapolis? Collie and Garcon are made by playing with Manning. Branch with Indianapolis would put up better numbers than Garcon or Collie. Branch, Welker and Tate are better than Collie, Garcon and Gonzalez (who I don't even know why he is in your argument considering he's played in 2 games over the last season and a half). If Collie or Garcon left to play in Seattle they would not have any impact either. So that's a moot point. The two SB GW drives both ended in FGs. One was off of the efforts by JR Redmond and the other was set up when John Kasay kicked the ball out of bounds. Welker is Collie with better numbers if he were playing in Indy instead of NE. Welker would put up huge numbers if he played with Manning. His numbers have diminished because everyone knows that without Moss Brady's only passes are going to be underneath. Moss makes every QB he's ever played for better. That is fact.
They would be good players pretty much anywhere. obviously playing w/ a great QB makes them better but they'd be doing as well w/ other good QBs too. :rofl:I love how you claim bias from me and yet you take credit away from Brady b/c his SB winning drives were FG drives. if it is so easy why has Manning never done it? How come Brady never through away a SB and where are Manning's SB winning drives? Brady played one healthy season w/ Moss and set records WHILE going to the SB. Brady won THREE SBs w/ a receiving corps that is WORSE than the banged up Colts of 2010.
They may be good else where, but you don't know that. They most definitely would not be as good as they are now, and they're not even that great...certainly not Garcon or Gonzalez. Garcon shows flashes but is way too inconsistent, what makes you think he would be good else where? I tell it like it is. I know you get bothered by that, but there's no disputing that Brady dumped the ball off and that JR Redmond got them into position to kick that FG. And in the 2nd Super Bowl they benefited from a horrible kickoff by John Kasay. Those are facts. Its interesting that Brady is given more talent at the receiver position and the passing game becomes more of the focus point to the offense and yet they don't win the Super Bowl, but with a lesser focus on the passing game, more reliant on the running game and defense they win 3 Super Bowls. The records that Brady set were still done with more pass attempts than when Manning set them. Odd isn't it.
Have to agree here. I don't know about yards, but he would probably have close to 125-135 catches. Manning loves the slot receiver. Edit: Had to look @ Welker's stats. The most rec's he had was 123 in 2009 while missing 2 games.
My eyes tell me. I can see the talent in those players. Garcon did things to us last year that no WR did to us all year. Brady led one of the greatest drives in SB history, Manning would have wet himself in that same spot but Brady led them to the GW FG w/ no timeouts, just over a minute left and inside their 20 yd line. kasay made a mistake but that game isn't close if Brady isn't answering the panther offense which scored 19 4th qtr pts and dominated that supposed great NE D. More pass attempts, LESS INTs, MORE wins and he didn't play 10 games in domes like Manning did in 2004.
Big deal, Garcon abused Lito Shepard. And I'm sure Manning had nothign to do with that either right? Who didn't abuse Shepard last season. That doesn't mean Garcon is going to be a future All Pro. I've seen plenty of him to note his inconsistency and his many dropped passes including a big one early in the Super Bowl.
Lito Sheppard wasn't a bad player for us last season and it's not who he was up against, it was the things he was doing. He was very impressive as was Collie. People like to act like Indy took 2 bums off the street and all of a sudden they could play b/c of Peyton. Peyton makes them better w/o a doubt but these guys have loads of talent. His drop in the SB cost Indy more than Peyton's game ending INTs for a TD, if only Garcon caught that ball then peyton never would have thrown away the SB.
What the hell does this mean in this context? The only things I really disagree with are Brady for MVP and Belichik for Coach. King's explanation for the two is essentially what we've come to know the two for so ultimately what they are doing is nothing unusually above character. For MVP: Brees, the guy has absolutely NO RUN GAME and still does his job. For Coach: I give it to Haley. Guy's 4-0 at home. Done a hell of a job turning the team around especially with Cassel.
Sheppard was horrible for us last year. Easily the weak link in our secondary. Collie beat Drew Coleman. Are you kidding me. These are the examples you use to say they would be good anywhere? These guys do not had "loads of talent". Collie is the same type of receiver as Welker is with half the talent, and Garcon is extremely inconsistent. I know you don't want to give Manning any credit, but it's funny how any reciever they plug in there all of a sudden is a great receiver.
NO's top RB is Chris Ivory, compare his #s to Green-Ellis: Ivory: 78-382, 4.9 YPC GE: 94-385, 4.1 YPC 16 more carries for Green-Ellis and only 3 more yards As teams the #s are very close but Brady doesn't have near the weapons to throw to that Brees has and his D isn't nearly as good yet he has his team w/ a better record. I thought Brees(or favre) deserved it last year but Brees isn't even in the discussion as of today for this year.
Our secondary was excellent last year, Sheppard was not bad at all. he was terrible in that game along w/ many other DBs(even Revis looked human w/ Wayne being the only WR all year to give him trouble). Isn't it funny how he always gets the credit? Whether the guy is a 1st rd pick or a mid rd pickif they succeed it's all b/c of peyton but magically in the biggest games Peyton cannot get it done and then it becomes the fault of those receivers who "peyton makes look better than they are".
Our secondary was okay outside of Revis. Sheppard and Rhodes were awful. He always gets the credit because after 13 seasons there seems to be a pattern. Whenever they put in a new receiver, that new receiver all of a sudden, somehow does well. Whether it's Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Brandon Stokley, Anthony Gonzalez (for 1 season), Dallas Clark, Pierre Garcon or Austin Collie. Are you telling me all of those receivers are the reason Manning is great and that it doesn't have anything to do with him at all? Manning makes his receivers better. The only receiver that gave Revis trouble was Wayne, and again I'm assuming it doesn't have anything to do with the guy throwing the ball right?
Anyway, back to the 2010 season. Manning has had to lead this team with a mediocre running game and injuries to Clark, Garcon and Collie. Good thing he has that next superstar Blair White to throw to or he'd really be in trouble.
Watch the actual matchup, Wayne beating revis had NOTHING to do w/ the QB. Go back and watch that title game, he gave Revis more problems than any player I saw all year and Wayne didn't have a great game. There is a pattern, peyon is great in the regular season then in January or february he turns into an average QB and his team goes home w/o a Chmapionship except for 2006 when his D and running game overcame typical big game Peyton and they won it all. This poor guy, he only has receivers like Wayne, Garcon and RBs like Brown and Addai(they have played almost every game). The guy just can't catch a break.:rofl:
According to you. Throw in Woodhead's: 45-232 But you can't compare Ivory to Green-Ellis outright they are used differently.
