Kinda ironic that the best Jets O-Line in history may have been the one in front of Boomer Esiason in 1993?
O'Brien had goon running games most of his career, his main back in '86 was Freeman who averaged 4 YPC. Pat Ryan did start the Cleevland game and he left the game w/ the Jets leading and we blew a 10 pt lead to send the game to OT where our O had numerous chances to win in double OT but our QB was awful. AGAIN, the pass protection for O'Brien was fine. It was more O'Brien holding onto the ball too long. Our 1993 OL was good but it certainly wasn't the best in jets history.
One of them hit a big pass to Wesley Walker, I think for a TD. Was that Ryan? I think it was Ryan. I can't even remember who was on it. Roger Duffy? Were Criswell and Cadigan still around? We did have the #1 offense for a good part of the year, Johnny Johnson had a great year (the RB, not the poster). Maybe the poster, too.
I already knew that junc is always wrong. No need to quote him. I don't think he will ever come off ignore for me.
Pennington was surrounded by some of the best talent we ever had. The bulk of these guys were even coached by Bill Parcells. He had HOF talent at center and running back. The whole line was stout. Jumbo Elliot was a great LT. Jets fans got pissed off when our reserve tackle was lost in the expansion draft. He may have achieved more but to say he did it with less is a joke.
Jumbo was NOT a great LT and when Chad took over Jumbo was gone anyway. Chad had good weapons around him just as O'Brien did. I think the biggest difference was kenny had Mickey Shuler at TE, Chad never had the security blanket. The 80s teams had good OLs, good RBs, good WRs just like the 00s did.
He won a playoff game on the road when he could barely lift his arm, his best WR left the team after his first season as a starter, he took over a 1-3 team and got them to a division title, went to a 1-15 team and led them to a division title. Of course there were good guys on the team with him but the same could be said for O'Brien, plus Parcells was long gone by the time Chad ever got on the field. O'Brien never succeeeded with any kind of adversity. He was tough as nails, I give him that, and he was accurate with a rocket arm, a lot of good stuff, but if one guy missed a block he was done. He also had Walker, Toon and Shuler in the passing game for most of his career and got Rob Moore when Walker was done. Pennington never had those kind of weapons and won bigger games without them.
It definitely wasn't the line in 1995. I'll never forget this hit, though Boomer may wish he did (actually, I think Boomer doesn't remember it). Richie Kotite thought it was a good idea to have a marginal (rookie?) left tackle, a converted defensive lineman who had never played offensive tackle before in a game, block Bruce Smith. McIver committed a false start, Bruce Smith claimed he never heard the whistle, and the rest is infamy. Catch Hugh Douglas's comments about the infamous Everett McIver/Bruce Smith match-up that nearly got Esiason killed - "Owww Boomer's dead. Is he dead? Oh my God, he killed Boomer!" Fast forward to the 2-minute mark of the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36jMh_SiG4s
A few weeks earlier Kotite thought it would be fun to put a college QB named Vance Joseph at CB and cover Tim Brown on national TV. We didn't win much but we sure had some fun experiments in the Rich Kotite days. At least trying a small WR from Hofstra worked out--even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
O'Brien was better then Pennington. Better thrower. He was a Pro Bowl player multiple years as a Jet. Pennington never did that.
This is a tough one. Before Chad got hurt, it was probably him. But he wasn't healthy enough to give serious consideration. I had to vote with O'Brien.
You aren't comparing Richie Anderson to Mickey Shuler, are you? Even if you think that(I really hope you don't) Anderson only played w/ Chad as a starter for one year.
You may not realize it, but you continue to make your arguments for Chad based on team achievements. That's not the most convincing way to tout an individual over someone else. SOme other points - Parcells was not "long gone" in the sense that the team he built was very much a part of the team Chad played with. Toon and Walker. Fact is Walker missed many games in his career. He only started and played 16 regular season games twice, in 78 and 83, plus all starts in the strike shortened 82 season. Toon was a rookie in 85, so Walker never did start all games even in a season after Toon started playing. In 86 for example Walker only started 8 games, although he did play in all 16. He was not in top condition even in that year. In Toon's first year Walker only played in 12 games, only starting 10. In 87 neither played the whole season, with Toon in 12 games, starting 11, and Walker played in only 5 games, starting 4. Walker did play in all 16 again in 88, but was hurt and only started 10 games. Meanwhile Toon had a good year in 88, but both declined in 89 and Toon was quite damaged by then. You mentioned Rob Moore, a great player, but he was a rookie in 90, effectively replacing Walker. But Toon missed games after Moore arrived, too, and retired after 92. There were other receivers on the team, and Shuler is arguably the best Jet TE ever, but the point is O'Brien did not have Walker and Toon on the field together as much as all that.
Think about this. We now have guy with Pennington's intangibles, and a pretty good arm (though not quite O'Brien's)... And He's got Edwards,Holmes and Keller, Tomlinson and Greene...(And Cotchery and Brad Smith) AND HE PLAYS FOR THE BEST DEFENSIVE COACH IN FOOTBALL.... (lost in all of this, is the fact that he's only about 42 odd starts from being a high school player) It's very good in Jet Nation today.
The only times O'Brien played to the level of a really good, playoff-caliber QB was when he had Walker and Toon together with Shuler at TE. Primarily in 1985 and 86, that's my point. When he didn't have that or his protection broke down he didn't improvise and save the day, he went down with the ship. After Walker left and Toon started getting beat up was when we got Moore, and while he had some moments there with O'Brien we didn't win a lot of games. We were 6-9 in 1987, 8-7-1 in 1988, 4-12 in 1989, 6-10 in 1990, 8-8 in 1991, after that O'Brien only played a few games in 92 and he was gone. Pennington on the other hand had Coles leave after 2002 when they first started to click, and Santana Moss who was hurt as much as Walker and Toon combined when we had him. Chrebet was good but nearing the end of his career. Parcells stopped coaching in 1999, left after 2000 and Pennington started his first game in 2002. So a lot of guys were around but we were hardly a Parcells team by then, we were 2-3 years and two coaches removed from him. Except for drafting Pennington and later bringing him to Miami after we cut him, I don't see how he's relevant at all. And I base everything on team performance for the most part, regardless of who we're talking about. In this case I'm pretty objective because I liked O'Brien as much if not more than Pennington. Had his jersey and everything, just calling it as I remember it. Put me in a big game with both guys healthy and I'm starting Pennington.
