I am not complaining about this team at all just correcting some flawed info. The funny thing is if for some strange reason we cut Connor in 2 years we'll hear about how we didn't really need him anyway. if leon was here you guys would tell us how great he is but since he is no longer a Jet he's garbage. and they scored 3 pts on O, maybe they should have used him more? Again, you act like it is hard to acquire a 5th rd pick. I have given you the scenario of using the 4th rd pick many times and you always ignore it. Brad is a good KR, Leon is a great KR. If you cannot see the difference I cannot help you. You say that but do watch Brad return kicks? he's not blowing by people or making great cuts, he's following some good blocks. leon's 2nd KR for a TD last week was better than any of Brad's KRs in his career. I love Brad, I m glad he's here, he's doing a great job on O and a good job returning kicks but to say he's even close to Leon as a KR is 100% inaccurate.
In a perfect world, sure we could have LW as a return specialist who could come in on offense for 5 plays a game as a change of pace/3rd down back. But there is a such thing as a salary cap, and LW was looking for Maurice Jones-Drew type money. W/ expiring contracts for Holmes,Edwards, Cromartie,Ellis, & Harris...it didn't make sense to sign LW for the money he wanted when his role would be so limited, especially considering that he was coming back from a catastrophic injury.
Except he's not rehabbing, he's already won a game for his team almost by himself, big bad leg and all. None of which changes the fact that a 5th round pick isn't hard to get, we traded one for Kevin O'Connell if I'm not mistaken, and the market for Conner as far as we know was Rex, Rex and Rex. Lucky for us Rex knows what he's looking at when he watches film.
If you think anyone is saying the Leon is garbage then your the one that needs to go back and read more carefully. Leon was great for us and then he didn't take a contract extension when he had the chance and ended up shattering his leg. Go back to this time last year and anyone discussion I was part of regarding Leon my position was "pay him what he wants". I loved watching him for a few years but his role on the team had diminished to the point that it wasn't worth waiting on his leg to get back to 100%... if it ever gets back to 100% Your other point about Conner is bull. Nobody arguing this with you blindly follows whatever the Jets do. It does become easier to assume that they are making the right move when pretty much every personnel decision they have made the last few years has turned out well for them. Based on their recent history I am working on the assumption that it was the right move until proven otherwise. Two kick returns is far away from being enough to prove otherwise.
There's a difference between Leon being garbage and Leon currently being a marginal improvement at best over what we have. If you can't see the difference, I can't help you. Again, have you watched him run the ball? He. Can't. Make. Cuts. Right. Now. He's terrible right now as a RB. Absolutely dreadful. I can't believe I have to correct so much flawed info. I haven't ignored it. I addressed it in the other thread. I pointed out that if we had traded back the 4th to where we picked Conner in the 5th, we'd have picked up a 7th rounder. There was ONE RB selected in the late 6th/7th, where our picks were. We wouldn't have picked up anyone to replace Leon/LT in the future, meaning we'd be in a terrible position next year when Leon left. As it stands, we have the continuity of Brad Smith returning kicks VERY well, and we have a RB to develop who has already demonstrated he can make his OWN impact on ST in one game. Based on what? Based on how they look, I'd agree. Based on their measurable production, though, it's absolutely minimal. In the only season in which they both returned kicks, Brad Smith was better. You can't deny that. Again, he did better for us last season than Leon did. He's been excellent for us again this year. I have to keep stressing: the improvement from Smith to Leon as far as our actual production is concerned is MINIMAL.
We traded a 7th for O'Connell. We traded a 5th for Santonio Holmes, who had arguably less baggage than Leon. As far as "he's not rehabbing", have you seen him carry the ball on offense? I keep having to ask this, which tells me you haven't.
Leon is NOT the same player he was with us. He's reaching 29, when 30 is usually a wall for running backs (LT this year and TJ last year are exceptions to the rule, and both of them are/were helped by our great o-line), Sure, he still has his speed and vision, but Leon isn't running with the same authority that he used to when he's been handed the ball by the QB. He looks tentative, nervous, to cut through holes, and he's rushed for a whopping 40 yards through 4 games. Is he a great KR? Yes. But it's easier to return kicks and follow blocks and make cuts where people are spread out as opposed to lined up in a defensive formation, which i'm sure you know, and that's the only place Leon looks like his old self. Will he return to his old form on the ground? Who knows, but from where I'm sitting, he doesn't look like himself, anywhere but kick returns. Brad Smith doesn't have Leon's blazing speed, yet he still manages to take advantage of Westhoff's blocking schemes, which certainly points out to me that Smith has at least as good, if not better vision on the KR then Leon does, and he's not tentative around opposing players like Leon is right now
And then what after this year? He wasn't gonna be back next year unless he took the vets minimum. The Jets have too many players that contribute on a much more regular basis needing new contracts after this season. Instead of having a very limited kick returner for one year the Jets decided to solidify a position that they were going to be lacking in after this season. I tend to think the impact on the team that Conner will have for the next 5-10 years is going to be more beneficial than anything Leon could have done for the Jets this year.
Agreed. I notice no one ever points to players that the Jets have kept around who consistently get bashed, like Gholston and Coleman. Or players who some of us think are actually BETTER off the team (i.e. my take when Woodhead was picked up by the Pats and I immediately said he'd be much better for them than he was for us).
He wasn't going to be back next year period. I pointed out that he was on Sirius NFL Radio last week and said that he was never coming back to the Jets. Junc's response: "Well, it's easy for him to say that NOW." Nobody is ever honest, nothing is ever true, unless it fits in with junc's perception.
for someone who made a thread telling people to dig deeper, you certainly either are unable to so or choose not to when doing so clearly would dispute your position. one, acoring a game winning special teams TD is completely dependent on what the team does around him, so it isn't a single-handed accomplishment. had the Seahawks offense been better, those two TD's would have been irrelevant. something that can be both meaningful and irrelevant based on the performance of others certainly isn't a logical criteria to distinguish between the two playeres. had McKnight scored two TD's against the Bills, they wouldn't have been game winners because the offense had already put the game away, yet he'd still have two TD's. of course they would have been less meaningful to the outcome, but not less meaningful in regards to his own ability. so whether a TD is a game winner is irrelevant, you can only judge whether he scored the TD's or not. since you are basing your argument on them being game winner, it is a flawed argument. next, the assertion that SD is a good team is ludicrous. one, they are 2-2, so they are average by definition. you can't judge what Leon did against them this year based on their previous years success to attempt to make that success bigger than what it is. that is inherently dishonest. that would be like saying McKnight had a 3 yard per carry average against a great Bills team because they went to 4 straight Super Bowls in the past. doesn't work, you have to judge that against the team as it is this year. two, he didn't do it against the SD team as a whole, which even if they are good, have been awful on special teams. their special teams have given up 3 TD's in 4 games, that's terrible. Leon didn't score two TD's against a good SD team, he did so against a horrible SD special teams. you tell others to dig deeper, and yet you refuse to do so if it suits your argument.
So anyways, if we can get back to Joe McKnight in the Joe McKnight thread... I thought I heard a comment during the broadcast about Rex saying how he thinks McKnight could be a good CB. Anyone else hear this, or am I losing my mind?
No one is saying leon is 200% but do you watch Brad? He is pretty slow and he runs straight. He doesn't do anything fancy, his returns are more run of the mill than the 2 leon returned last week. Based on what? Career KRs: Brad: 34 returns, 834 yds, 24.5 average, 1 TD Leon: 127 returns, 3390 yds, 26.7 average, 6 TDs That's a pretty significant difference. He had ONE good return last year! Don't forget that esepcialyl early last year teams were figuring out the new wedge rules. Smith had one return against Indy(a big one) but you act like he was a great return man which he was not. Outside of that return he was averaging under 23 yards per return. 29-30 is old for most RBs but leon doesn't have the carries in his legs that feature backs have and leon is 28 right now. But the Seahawks offense wasn't better, was it? McKnight didn't touch the ball in a meaningful spot, had he done so and made an impact I would have acknowledged it even if it didn't "win the the game". SD is 2-2, they'd be 3-1 if it wasn't for leon Washington. Yes comparing Leon against a team that has proven every year they are palyoff caliber is the same as comparing McKnight vs. the Bills and their 4straight AFC Titles in the early 90s:lol: That horrible SD STs: KR's against SD: Weeks 1-2 and week 4: 16 returns for 290 yds, 18.1 average week 3 against Leon: 4-253 yds, 63.3 avg., 2 TDs This is what I mean when I say dig deeper. You see PUNT RETURNS against SD and think their STs suck but next time check the important stat for a discussion like this and that would be KICK RETURNS.
But the fact of the matter is that Joe McKnight ISN'T NEEDED RIGHT NOW, and neither would Leon had he stayed. You keep ignoring that point.
3 TD's on special teams = horrible, it means they are susceptible to big plays regularly even if they don't give them up all the time. when they are giving up TD's on kicks and punts, clearly it is a broader issue of special teams since it is plaguing both. digging deeper means actually thinking about the events around the stats to give them meaning since stats don't have meanings in and of themselves. dig deeper. San Diego is 2-2 because they are an average team with a bad special teams that Leon was able to be successful against.
Rumor has it McKnight was instantly the USC's best RB and CB the day he stepped foot on campus. If the kid is trying can do other things to get on the field, more power to him. The more you can do the more valuable you are to the team.
