Keep using statistics and you can make anything say everything. The question was "Is $4 million the difference between fielding a competitive team and a terrible team with a great CB?" What is the $4 million position we're going to need next season to still be competitive? If one of our players walks, $4 million next year probably gets us a big, impact rookie. A lot to gamble on for a team that is setting SB aspirations, and yet here we are, confident that our rookie #2 CB can help us succeed where last year's team failed. . Now you're just arguing the slippery slope. What was stopping them before Revis' demands? What if the second highest deal to the one being demanded was only a 50% difference? What if it was only a 40% difference? At what point does that break the team's ability to sign players? At what point does the difference between those two deals become benign? So you're saying that Wilson and Lowery have no business seeing the field as CBs? One week ago, I would have been willing to agree with the latter. Both are under contract for multiple years. You're going way too far into hypotheticals here. Stick to tangible effects here. That is typically how the market for these things evolves.
Personally I think training camp or no training camp there is no way Revis has the season he did last year. In this era, the way the league passes the football, corners just don't have the seasons like Revis had last yr. It's a testament to how good the guy is but basically if he gives up one touchdown to an elite receiver he's having a down year. Or even one long pass to an elite receiver. I mean the only play last season I can remember him getting beat was the Ted Ginn TD.
That's the whole reason he is holding out. He knows there is no way he can have another season like he had last year. This is the best possible time for him to get $$$$$$. That being said Tanny is smart and will not be foolish enough to pay him Like he can have another 10yrs like he just had. Take a reasonable contract or sit for 3 yes Mevi$
I'll agree that he has a lot of things to learn, but unfortunately a lot of things you tend to learn from in-game experience covering someone better than the #3 WR. If/when Reivs gets back and Wilson gets bumped back to nickel, I'm positive there are going to be situations where Wilson will take over for Cromartie on the #2 WR so he can get the experience, sort of like the inverse of Revis' rookie season where Mangini had him cover the slot WR so Revis could get the practice at the position. If Wilson can develop into good cover corner over the course of this season, then the Jets would be able to let him play at #2 and go out and find a solid nickel to replace Wilson's role this season. Paying Wilson to be the #2 and bringing in another solid CB to never be anything more than a nickel would be much cheaper to pay Revis as a #1, Cromartie as a #2 and have a first round draft pick sitting at #3 regardless of whether Revis signed for $12 million or $16 million per. I'm not saying it wouldn't be amazing to have Revis, Cromartie and Wilson all on the same secondary for more than a year, but the financial difference between Revis and Cromartie as the starters vs. Revis and Wilson as the starters is far greater than that aggravating $4 million/per. That's true, but we also have James Ihedigbo and Eric Smith for that role. In fact, without that role, there's no reason to put Coleman or Cole on the field at all on defense. We have plenty of corners to fly in off of the edge and hurt someone. To reiterate the problem I have with bringing back Holmes and Edwards: I really don't see the room for both Holmes and Edwards on this offense. Schottenheimer runs a modified West Coast system that typically features one WR stretching the defense over-top while the #2 and the TE/FB/Slot WR run underneath. Cotchery is a decent slot WR but given his hands and his ability to use the sidelines, he actually makes for a better #2 WR. Between Holmes and Edwards, Holmes is by far the better of the two for the Slot position. He's faster, he's more agile, and he does a better job of making people miss. The problem with asking him to play #3 in this offense is that it devalues his ability to stretch the defense by asking him to run underneath more often. As for Edwards, he really only has a spot on this team as a #1 WR. He doesn't have the lateral agility of Holmes or Cotchery to play underneath, he doesn't really have the ability to make people miss with the ball in his hands and, frankly, he's too goddamn big. Now, the only thing that could possibly stop him from playing like a #1 WR is if his dropped passes go back to his two seasons prior to his being traded to the Jets. In which case, he really doesn't have a place on this team at all. Holmes would be the better option as a #1 and who the fuck wants a possesion receiver with bad hands? Now, if both Holmes and Edwards perform to their best, then the only real way to keep them both is if Schottenheimer changes his scheme to a vertical attack like Dallas, Indy, New England or Arizona. Problem with that is that it took Schottenheimer four years as an OC to get his current system right, and the majority of this board was still calling for his head last season up until the first Indy game. Some sort of forget about it at that point thanks to the play of the defense and special teams, but there were still a lot of people hoping that he would get hired away about until the first Cincinnati game. Do we really want Schottenheimer redesigning the offense when Sanchez would be going into his third season in the system?
Give me a break. I'm helping you understand the significance of the $4 million that you seem to think is insignificant by showing you the percentage. I'm not using crazy statistics that manipulate reality. I'm trying to help you see the reality. Apparently you don't want to see the significance and dismiss what I'm explaining as some silly statistic. A percentage isn't even a statistic, it's a representation of a fraction. You keep trying to take the $4 million completely out of context as if their are no future or current ramifications. What the Jets are offering is ALREADY a great deal for the CB position. Again, show me who you would cut from last year to get Revis his $16 million. What are you even talking about now? You're not making sense. The highest long term CB contract in the NFL is $10 million/year. All of the other top paid CB's are in the $8 - $10 million range. Revis was offered 20% more than the highest and you're telling us it's an unreasonable stance to believe that's a good deal? But I'm on a slippery slope. I don't know what the exact breaking point is, I'm not a GM. I know that money given to Revis cannot be given to others. I know there's a budget. I know that based on the "normal" top paid CB's in the league Revis has been offered a significant increase over them. I can also say that our cap wizard GM seems to believe that making it 60% more is unreasonable. I'm saying there is a certain dollar figure the team has to budget for the CB position and giving more dollars to Revis means less dollars to other CB's. Either that or that CB budget goes up and other positions lose dollars. You cannot deny the fact that money going to Revis takes away from other players. I'm just trying to figure out a way to make you understand why that $4 million is significant. You don't seem to want to believe it because you won't listen to a word I'm saying, just argue it with silly things like "keep using statistics".
just reading the thread after being out all day... how were you at todays practice... yesterdays at hofstra was the last open practice.
Cato, if the $4 million wasn't significant, then right now, Alan Faneca and Vlad Ducasse would be competing for the starting left guard position. We paid Faneca handsomely for 2010 and then released him to save, what, $2 million?
Adrien Clarke sucked at pass blocking. Jacob Bender sucked at pass blocking. Alan Faneca was a mediocre pass blocker. Let's keep things in context. If Faneca, Ducasse and Slauson were all on this roster, Alan Faneca starts against the Ravens. Anything else would be foolish. He's not on the roster, because the Jets are rolling the dice that they can develop a younger, cheaper player into an adequate replacement in a hurry. Why the hurry? Because $2 million is a lot of money.
I understand what the significance of $4 million is to a $12 million/year contract vs a $16 million/year contract. I paid attention in Pre-Algebra. Furthermore, I understand what the significance of $4 million is to one year's salary cap, the oversimplified point that you brought up. Oh and this: Is just fucking hilarious. You could have at least put that in quotation marks. No, I'm saying that having another $4 million to work with isn't going to pull off the Dream Team roster that some fans think the Jets are capable of in the era of a salary cap where three of those players are the best in the league at their positions(two of which are already under contract) and the other three could start for any team in the league. What I think is a good deal doesn't really fucking matter, now, does it? Nor does what you think is a good deal. I already said that the $120 million contract didn't seem reasonable, but that's where the Jets think the market is at. Iggy asked me if I thought an extra $ 4million/year made it that much worse. I said no because I didn't think that an addtional $4 million per would make that much more of an impact relative to the $12 million per that he was already offered. You want to ask me the same question while bringing up these points for a third time and see if my opinion changes? Go ahead. Then go look up the dictionary definition for insanity. You might be entertained. Lord knows I would be. Really? I thought all NFL general managers typically spend late nights on message boards. Our cap wizard GM who is, at least partially, taking his orders on limits from Woody. Yes, I realize that Tannenbaum is also the one advising Woody on these proceedings but do you think that if Woody asked Tannenbaum to find the money to accommodate Revis' demands that he wouldn't be able to, given the underachievement of some of the players currently on the roster? Jenkins' has health issues; B. Thomas is so close to being completely invisible in the pass rush to the point where the Jets had to bring in an 35 year old Pass Rush Specialist to fill the void; Gholston is STILL earning more money than he ever should have, with the fourth word in that clause meant to be taken as loosely as the laws governing the English language and physics will allow. You want to talk about the CB budget for next season? What will cost more: -#1 CB: Revis at $12 million -#2 CB: Cromartie at $8 million -Rest of the CBs or -#1 CB: Revis at $16 million -#2 CB: Wilson at $3.8 million(where a first round CB should be) -Rest of the CBs Do you really think Cromartie is a long term plan along side Revis with a #1 pick playing nickel while the other two, young, talented CBs play out their deals? Than tell me who $4 million costs us. Give me a real impact, not a hypothetical or a percentage relative to another deal. Give me the player that this $4 million doesn't let us sign. Which position gets worse. How does having the other $4 million let us put together a Madden roster for more than one year? Well, when you spend 329 words justifying your use of statistics...
How much are we saving on next season for getting rid of his deal now? He played two seasons out of a 5 year, $40 million contract. Cutting him now paid him a total of $21 million but saved a total of $19 million. Faneca was cut now to save more money later. Oh yea, and last season, he fucking sucked at pass blocking. P.S. Competing with Ducasse? Where's the love for the guy who's actually winning the starting LG job? Ducasse has finished with TC and he still isn't getting looks with the first team over Slauson because he's struggling with the system. Your argument lost steam right there.
The day I can have a fan explain to me the rules governing an NFL salary cap and actually make fewer mistakes and not over overlook as many intricacies as the flawed reports from the media is the day I'll give any weight to the concerns of another fan over the Jets' salary cap status. Of course, those concerns mean even less when the fans have no idea what format the cap is going to take the next season in an environment where both the owners and the NFLPA are unsatisfied with returning to the previous salary cap structure.
I have a question. If Revis doesn't sign a new contract and sits out and we say screw him and don't trade. Does that mean Revis belongs to us indefinitely because he never honored his contract and he'll always owes us this year?
Right. If Revis holds out and we don't sign him or trade him, he still owes the Jets 3 years of football. He can't semi-retire for 3 years by not playing and sign with another team unless the Jets allow it in a trade or a cut. He's not a Free Agent or Restricted Free Agent.
I dont think there is anyone in the league that will pay Revis the money he is demanding...Get that shit out of here.
