It's weird how neither department struggled with the loss of either. The run game was great all year, and Sione Pouha played really good football. But I'd say Jenkins, he's a gamechanger and the running game was #1 in the NFL without Leon.
Jenkins is a game-changer, but Leon's KRs aren't? I consider Jenkins to be dominant but hardly a "game-changer".
I'm actually gonna say losing Leon was bigger. Pouha actually stepped up and played a very solid NT. Not that Greene didn't do well, but our offense and the Sanchize seemed to struggle a lot when Leon left, Mark didn't have his third down safety net, anymore and it seemed to rattle him. I am more excited to have Jenkins back this year, but in terms of who effected the team more im going with Leon.
Whoops, I'm used to polls on this site not having the answer I want on them and I did not read your question well enough. Apologies. I think Leon Washington was by far the bigger loss for the season. Not necessarily at the time the injury happened, but based on how the defense just kept plugging along while the offense struggled mightily in a bunch of games. If you'd asked me before the season who would have been the bigger loss I'd have gone Jenkins hands-down. Somehow Ryan and Pettine kept a topflight defense together, with only a minor drop-off against the run after Jenkins went down. I think if Washington and Cotchery were healthy the entire year it's probably worth 12-15 points on Sanchez rating and an extra couple of wins (Buffalo and Atlanta.)
Let's see now, who is more important to the team? 1. A pro bowl caliber nose tackle 2. A f*&#^ing kick returner This poll only proves that Leon is extremely overrated by my fellow Jets fans and that everyone who voted for him in this poll knows nothing about football.
It wasnt asked who is the better player, but who was the bigger loss. Lets see our defense was #1 by a long shot, or our offense which was middle of the pack. Not to mentioned our season ended 1 game shy of the superbowl because WE DIDNT HAVE ANY FRICKEN HALFBACKS. So the #1 rushing team had to have a rookie QB throw the ball almost every single play in the 2nd half on the road 30 minutes from the superbowl because we ran out of runingbacks. Yes Leon was indeed the bigger loss.
RB is the LEAST important position besides maybe safety. I think it can be argued to a certain extent that finding a LEGIT and good NT is harder to find then a good QB in the NFL. QB is obviously more important, I just think good NTs are harder to come by then good QBs. Leon was not only replaced by Greene but it was actually an upgrade. The only thing we loss was our ability to catch checkdowns out of the backfield. With Jenks we loss a presence and a player that consistently was doubled and sometimes even triple teamed and that hurt our pass rush. Jenks eating up blockers and forcing the double/triple teams may not appear in any stat sheet but to me, that is making a play in itself. To me its not even close Jenks is our 2nd most important and probably still our 2nd best overall defensive player. If you don't agree how about Jenkins is a 95 overall in Madden while Leon is a 81 OOOOOOOO!!!!!!! :smile:
I disagree, I think he is a game changer because he "changes" the way teams play us with blocking schemes, teams avoid running at him, and how much he frees up our pass rush. He is the best defender we have had in the trenches since the sack exchange, he's awesome.
Jenkins took a ton of blocks freeing up our pass rush. Leon helped put fear on kick returns... Win Jenkins
Leon was no more durable than Shonn Greene. If we had Leon going into that Colts game there is no guarantee he would have made it to the second half either. Even if Leon could have been there to help us move the chains our problem is that we couldn't rattle Peyton Manning. Kris Jenkins would have made a difference. With 350 lbs of nasty in his face on first and second downs Peyton doesn't have all day and he doesn't make plays at will on our defense. Also, our coaches wimped out on the offensive game plan. They put Sanchez on a short leash when we needed him to make big plays. Our offense had enough talent to keep us in that game but we missed opportunities by trying to play it safe.
I'm shocked at the disparity in the voting. I know we have a negative view of Leon, but come on! The defense actually improved in the playoff run, at the time, I was like "Kris who?" But Leon, OMG what we could have done. In the kick return game, our field position after KOs was depressing. In the running game, you lose a legit threat to take every touch of the ball to the house. I damn sure would rather have had Leon than Jones in the 2nd half of the AFCCG. And of course, you take away a huge receiving threat, all in on player. I would have thought this was an obvious question, but I guess not...
The logic is very flawed. Leon was very durable, and had one freak injury, so now he's injury prone? Especially in regards to Jenkins and his chronic bad back, why would you think he would still be 100% in the second half of his 19th game?
now think about how dominant that same defense would have been as they grew into the system with jenkins taking up two blockers every play. if you put leon back on the offense sanchez is still a streaky rookie who never displayed an ability to use his check down's effectively. the argument about leon being able to carry the load after greene went down don't hold much water with me because thats exactly how he got hurt in the first place. and who exactly has a negative view of leon? everyone hates his agent and the only criticism that leon is getting is having alvin the shitmunk as his agent.
Well if were going to assume that either of them would of gotten re-injured then the entire conversation here is pointless. Greene played the first half then Leon would of stepped in when Greene got hurt. The biggest problem with Peyton was we couldnt keep the ball out of his hands. Our defense was on the field the entire second half, unable to rest because our offense could do nothing. The defense got worn out because our offense was forced to constantly throw the ball which forced our defense to play thin and spread out constantly getting worn out by Peyton. Adding Jenks to the equation wouldnt of made much a difference vs a team like the Colts that was constantly putting the ball up in the air against a winded secondary. If we could of eatten up clock kept the chains moving, and kept Peyton off the field we would have gone to the superbowl.
Just as pertains to the AFCCG, since the team got all the way to halftime and through the playoffs without either player, so I don't see a reason to debate it, I submit that Jenkins was not a reason why Manning was not controlled in the 2nd half. If all we needed to turn that around was Jenkins, then why go out and get Cromartie? Well, obviously because it was more the fault of the defensive backfield than the NT that we let Manning beat us. The defense was that dominant, but I can't hang the loss around a guy who hadn't even suited up half the season for that dominant defense. If I had to place blame, its on every DB not named Revis. Leon in the second half would have been a drastic improvement over what Jones didn't do, even if it would only be maybe 10 carries, that could very well have added up to be 7 more first downs, 8 more minutes time of possession and a 2,3, maybe even 4 TD swing (1-2 less for Manning on the sidelines, 1-2 more for us) Leon has done that much for this team, esp on 3rd downs, many times in the past. Creating great field position on KOs and convrting on 3rd down, you're damn right I believe he could easily have been the difference for us in that 2nd half.
I'd like to hear why you think Leon wouldn't have "made it" to the 2nd half of the Colts game after being fairly healthy for most of his career here. You're also right, moving the chains is so overrated in this game, so you can throw out LW's contribution in the passing, ground, and kick return game. By the way, he wasn't just "a ^%$&%# KR", he was a Pro-Bowl KR and for good reason. Kris Jenkins would have probably made a difference in that game as well. How significant is unknown. Mainly because Jenkins wasn't playing CB. Manning neautralized our blitzes by getting the ball out of his hands fast and he did it by Garcon against Drew "Toast" Coleman for a reason. Go back and watch the game, you'll see the slants kill us over and over again in the 2nd half.
D line held up pretty well. Pouha had a break out year. And Leon was our big threat playmaker for most the year.
if poole can stay healthy and jenks goes back to his old self with puoha (who i personally think played like a top 10 NT in the league last year) can spell him to keep him fresh, and cromartie actually be better in the man to man scheme. we can be the #1 defense again no problem, if all that happens and we can get a difference maker pass rusher whther an odrick type at DE or a graham/ hughes at OLB (meaning if we get one of those top talent guys AND they actually pan out) than this defense has potntial to be up ther with some of the best of the modern era.
