While we're dropping stats here, I'm just going to add this in for the sake of comparison and objectivity: Leon's first 6 games: 71 carries 325 YD 0 TD Shonn's last 6 games: 64 carries 323 YD 0 TD Didn't exactly miss a step there, either, but didn't improve either. Of course, the regular season isn't why people are excited about Greene. Leon wasn't given enough of a role this season, and didn't demonstrate enough explosion, to merit the doom and gloom approach to his injury that we all felt. I thought our season was over as soon as Jenkins and Leon both went down. It clearly wasn't. The power running game swallowed up Leon's role and Rex's defense swallowed up the loss of Jenkins, at least statistically. The biggest difference is that with the return of Pace, the defense was just starting to establish itself. It may have been even better with Jenkins in there, and his role as defined by the team was clearly larger than that of Leon.
Who is a better player? Jenkins. Who was a bigger loss? Washington. The Jets managed to get by with Pouha, DeVito, and the rest of their DL rotation--it wasn't perfect and it wasn't as good it was with #77 in the middle, but they made it work. They did maintain the league's top defense without Jenkins. The offense, especially Sanchez, really struggled without Washington though. I think that a lot of Sanchez's mistakes could've been prevented with Washington available as a check down option, and more carries for Leon would've helped keep Jones fresh enough to contribute more in the playoffs.
I'm wishy washy on your first point, but I completely agree with the second. Greene wasn't handed nearly enough carries as the season wore on to keep Jones fresh. The man only had one sub-20 carry game after Leon's injury. He had 4 in the first 6 games while Leon was healthy. That's a great point I hadn't really been thinking about, and it definitely swings my opinion more toward the "it's even". Junc could have made this argument much more compelling from the outset if he had thought of that. As far as the check-down option, I'd have to see it to believe it. I'd like to think Sanchez would have gone to Leon more frequently as a check-down as the season wore on, but we didn't see it while Leon was healthy. The vast majority of his receptions were on designed screens. It's definitely something they'll work on with LT in the fold.
I think kinghenry pretty much has it. We're not talking about how rare good NT's are in the league. That's a given. You can certainly make an argument for both players for and against. I honestly thought we were done when Jenkins went down more than Leon. But that proved to be false. Instead you had DeVito and Pouha step up and hold the opposing running game down. Leon could've kept Jones fresher to go further in the Playoffs for sure, as well as provide Sanchez that reliable check-down. But our running game specifically didn't really take a hit with Leon's absence. Smith filled the KR role well, but LW is more of a homerun hitter and could change the outlook of any game (especially those close games we lost) with his returns. With Jenkins, we probably could've provided more of a pass-rush on Manning. With Leon in the same game, we would've probably converted more 3rd downs in the 3rd & 4th. Something we weren't able to do AT ALL, as well as having another option besides a broken down TJ and a hurt SG. Leon would've kept our running game going. I wish I could've voted for being equally important, but there wasn't an option.
Clearly, it's Jenkins. While the rest of the D-line stepped in for him admirably, I think his absence probably forced Rex to call a few more heavy blitzes than he otherwise would have.
After having the number 1 ranked rushing attack, its hard to make a case for Leon, but then the same could be said with Jenks. But as the D wasn't #1 in every category, have to go with Jenks. I'll bet all the O linemen that up to that point that hadn't met the big man, all breathed a sigh of relief.
our rush defense wasn't very good in the playoffs (the Chargers don't run the ball but the Bengals torched us on the ground and the Colts had success on the ground (would have had more if Manning wasn't torching us through the air)
Leon Washington obviously. he gave Sanchez great field to work with whenever he returned. The defense was #1, so we needed offensive help to balance our team. Leon for sure.
That fits with my recollection, although I don't know if there's a stat actually showing those blitzes went up when Jenkins went out. But my recollection is that it seemed the D called more of those to help bolster the DL with him out.
I honestly don't think Ryan would've toned down the number of blitzes if Jenkins remained healthy all year. It probably would've made our blitzes more successful and efficient but I doubt he would've toned it down. If anything we would probably see more sacks and longer 3rd downs. In which case, he would've been more free to send the house on opposing QB's. So I don't think it impacted his blitzing play-calling abilities.
and the Leon h8 continues.....wow! Jenx is a fav of mine but the end result was still a #1 defense. Yes, we had the #1 rushing attack but Yet, our Special teams and Field position was atrocious and having to Pass option out of the backfield on 3rd down killed #6-shooter when he forced shit to other players.... Funny, I rewatched the Houston game (week 1) yesterday and we actually had Mark using that very option.... Once Leon was gone, so was that option.
leon was barely used as a check down option. he had 15 catches before he got hurt last year. sanchez wasn't using his check down options before leon got hurt so it's kinda hard to figure when and if he would have started using leon effectively.
Lets be honest the Jets didn't really miss either of them that much. However, are we really going to argue who the better more elite player is at their position? That is just shear utter bunk. The defense got better as they got to know the system better. No team has a better grasp of a brand new system in game 1 as they do in game 15. Calvin Pace coming back made a huge difference. He is geometrically better than the other options, it isn't even close. The Jets definitely missed LW in the Kick return game other then that not very much.
This. If you told me before last season that I'd miss Leon more than Jenkins, I'd be shocked, especially with Greene. But we did. We lacked explosion on offense, save for an occasional Braylon deep ball. If you say you can think of a few games we would have won if we had Jenkins, I'll think of a few we would have won with Leon. We could have used him on special teams and on offense for some big plays when we had no hope offensively. We still had the #1 defense in the NFL without Jenkins. However, we weren't beating the Colts unless we had both. Or maybe just Jenkins and Greene.
I think simply because of what happened in the Colts game Leon was the bigger loss. We lost to the Colts because we didnt have ANY HBs left. Yeah I know Leon isnt used to taking a lot of carries (where he wouldnt of taken more then 15-20 for a half anyway), but he likely would of been enough to get us to the superbowl.
With Jenkins, the defense (particularly the pass rush) would have been more formidable, imo. In turn, that would've benefited the secondary's performance. I agree that, even w/out Leon (which hurt), the run game didn't seem to miss a beat. Both losses were big, although in the end, they were not as damaging as I (or any of us)had thought.
Well, we had Jones left, but he was done. If Leon stays healthy, I don't know if we win. Would Greene have usurped Jones's role at that point? I don't know. Probably not.
