I don't remember you ever asking me that, but I'm high on Mays for a few reasons. Obviously, there are his measurables. 4.3 speed, 6'3 230 is pretty amazing. He hits like a truck and was the deep cog in a pretty awesome defense for 4 years. His potential is incredible and he has awesome range in the center-field role which I think fits pretty perfectly with us. Rex likes his defenses to have that rangy, center-field safety. Mays is an enforcer, not a ballhawk. With most other incredible athletes like this, they usually lack either the work ethic or desire (Ghost) to be great. From all accounts, Mays has an incredible work ethic. If the right coach (Rex Ryan) takes Mays, he'll turn him into a Pro-Bowl safety.
I don't love Mays, but I don't hate him either I don't love him because I prefer DB's who can "find it" and "catch it" to steal a phrase from Rex Ryan, IOW's I prefer the ball-hawks, but there is something to be said for safeties who can KNOCK PEOPLE OUT ala John Lynch, especially if they run in the 4.3's/4.4's (like Mays) and are not a big liability in coverage like Roy Williams. So I prefer Earl Thomas because I prefer playmakers, but there is something appealing about a safety who can UNLOAD on some of these diva WR's. That was fairly common back in the day and I wouldn't hate having one of those now. I mean who here wouldn't love it if Taylor Mays lowered the boom on Randy Moss just as the ball was arriving!
I'm starting to think that if Mays is there, we should take him (unless Brandon Graham is there). His size/speed combination, combined with a work ethic and marginal IQ could be a huge weapon in this defense. Most people have him gone by 29. He's not the ideal playmaking safety next to Leonhard, but Ryan could think he's a good enough weapon to take. He does hit people. Putting the fear of God into other teams is always appealing. Nice to have a knockout puncher in the secondary when your team talks as much shit as we do. I don't think we'll end up getting him because he's not Ryan's ideal "Can they find it? Can they catch it?" guy as you mentioned earlier. Obviously, I'd prefer Berry or Thomas. Hell, I'm so high on Berry that I'd almost trade all 6 picks we have for him. If it were a normal season, I'd seriously consider it because we could fill other holes in free agency. This year, we really can't, so it's a luxury we can't afford. But if we added Berry to the mix, there's no telling how good the defense could be. The question is, would you give up a 1st and 2nd to move up to the late teens to get Thomas. We could probably recoup back a 4th, too. Is that worth it?
^ with what every draft guru has said about Thomas plus Mike Mayock - I wouldn't be too pissed if Tanny traded up for Thomas. But only Earl Thomas.
I wouldn't be opposed to trading up for Thomas if the price is reasonable, but I would rather trade down a little bit and acquire more picks, or just stay at 29 and take the BAP within reason. I think a good player will be there for us at 29, or even a few picks later. May not be a safety, but we should be able to secure a quality DL, OLB, S or RB - and I'm okay with that if we keep all our picks or add more. PS. I agree that it wouldn't hurt for a defense that talks as much as ours to have a legit knockout artist at safety. If you want to have an intimidating defense that certainly doesn't hurt. Good Point, Mack
Mike Mayock did a great breakdown of Taylor Mays' tackling style. It's almost grotesque in its lack of form. The guy will run full speed, then come to a complete STOP, and then lurch himself at the ball carrier. Anyone with minor football ability can avoid a hit like that. As I have said, if he has the ball carrier squared up, he is going to wreck them. The problem is that that situation rarely if ever occurs in the NFL. Ball carriers are just too skilled to get away from hits like that. It would be like having Justin Miller playing safety with a more archetypal size. Mays is a bust waiting to happen. At best, he is a 2 year project at Safety. He is not what this defense needs right now, nor what it can afford.
The thing is, do you think something like that is coachable? If Rex and Tanny think that Dennis Thurman (and even Mark Carrier...I know he's D-Line coach but he was a good safety in his day) could work with him on his football technique and if he's there at 29 it wouldn't shock me to see us take him. I wouldn't be the biggest fan of the move, mainly cus Mays might end up being a project at a position that is now an immediate need
Taylor Mays has horrible range for a guy with his measurables. The guy's biggest knock is that he's completely lost when it comes to covering. Why do you think so many teams are considering him as a linebacker? ...because he lacks coverage skills.
I've seen him play and I most definitely want us to draft him. He easily has the most upside of any safety that has come out in a while. No teams are considering him at linebacker. And he has more coverage skills than you are giving him credit for. This just isn't true at all. Now we're just making things up? How many USC games have you watched the past 3 years?
Since you're going to edit stuff in, I'll go ahead and make a new post. I've watched just about every single Southern Cal game for the past I'd say ten or so years. That's when I really started to focus in on football and recruiting. I really enjoy watching the premier talent of the entire country perform as one team. Plus, I get to watch the guys that had offers from Fresno State sit on the bench instead of playing for the Bulldogs. I thought Taylor Mays was going to revolutionize the way the position was played. He didn't even come close to the expectations I had for him. Mays takes incredibly poor angles, he has no ball skills, and not a single playmaking bone in his body. The kid over pursues on almost every play. He can hit like a truck, but that doesn't mean shit if he's out of position. I don't appreciate you saying that I'm making things up, when anyone with a fully functioning football brain can tell you that Taylor Mays has trouble in coverage.
Is there a reason why I can't quote? **Edit. Nvm I got. Anyway, I fault the USC scheme for Mays' perceived lack of coverage ability. Even in 2008 when he had an absolute great year, people were saying he couldn't cover because of his lack of interceptions. Coaches told him to go out there and look for the hits instead of the ball and that's what he did. Still, he was a big reason why that defense was #1 in 2008. #1 pass defense with absolutely no deep balls given up. That doesn't happen without a good safety with good coverage skills. I don't care how good a safety is, when the guys up front are not getting it done, it's going to make you look bad. USC lost a lot in 2009. Rey Maualuga, Brian Cushing, Clay Matthews, Kaluka Maiava, Carry Harris. Their linebackers and corners last season were sorry as hell. When you are the team's last line of defense, playing 25 yards off the line, you are not supposed to be leading the team in tackles. He was asked to do a lot. People want to know why he looked good in 2008, but didn't look so great in 2009, the answer is in the numbers. Despite missing a game, Mays lead the team in tackles by a pretty good margin. A safety will undoubtedly look better when he doesn't have two uncovered receivers and a tight end streaking up the field. He goes one way, the QB goes the other, and then people want to MMQB and ask why he didn't go the other way. That didn't happen in 2008 because the defense was so good. They got pressure on the QB and they had corners and linebackers who could cover. This is why I blamed the scheme. Mays played centerfielder. Naturally, if you have a good defense, there wont be many decisions for the free safety to make. You see a receiver beat your corner up the field, you give him help over the top. You see a tight end get separation from your linebacker, you give him help. You see the running back lose your linebacker on a wheel route, you give him help. But when those things are all happening on the same damn play, that safety is going to look bad when he goes one way and the play goes the other. That's the difference between 2008 Mays and 2009 Mays. With that being said, you put him in a Cover 2 defense and he will be great. If you have a good defense, that same Cover 2 that Pete Carroll used at USC would be good for Mays as well. If you have an attacking defense that blitzes your safety or makes him the safety net more often than not, that's where he will excel the most. That's the Jets.
"Now we're making things up?" USC has one of the nastiest front sevens that I've ever seen. Armstead, Griffen, and Casey are all freakishly talented defensive linemen. Chris Galippo, Malcolm Smith, and Mike Morgan are damn good linebackers. Kevin Thomas, Will Harris and Josh Pinkard are all solid defensive backs. You can't blame the scheme for his lack of interceptions. The guy doesn't create turnovers.
You wouldn't say this if you knew the scheme that USC ran under Carroll. There wasn't going to be any kind of revolutionizing at FS in Pete Carroll's defense. That's why guys before him never had great numbers. Again, the scheme naturally has him out of position. If you have a good defense in front of you, you're going to look better. He was asked to guard against the deep balls and go for the hit as opposed to playing the ball. That is straight from the horses mouth and it's something you could clearly see in the games. If you're going to criticize a player, it would be nice if you knew what his role was. Saying things like he has no ball skills, no playmaking "bones" or that you expected him to "revolutionize the way the position was played" leads me to believe that you don't know USC's scheme or the role Mays was asked to play. He wasn't expected to make plays. He was expected to be the last line of defense. He wasn't expected to go for the ball. He was asked to go for the hit. That's the scheme and that's the coaching. I'm not saying that either was bad, but just pointing out the clear flawed opinions of some who think he isn't a good safety. What I see is a good safety who has a ton of potential(far more than any safety in the draft) that will do what the coaches ask him to do. You can't fault him for the scheme USC ran. At 6'3 230 pounds and 4.3 - sub 4.3 speed, that's the kind of player you don't pass up on. You don't talk about what he did wrong in college, in a completely different system, coached by entirely different coaches with different philosophies - you talk about the mass potential he has and how he will fit in YOUR system. Mays fits this system and then-some.
no. Its about seeing a player who isn't fundamentally sound, coming into a league where everyone is fast and everyone is good. He's going to be overwhelmed. Its time to stay away.
This: He has a shit football IQ. The guy is a future track and field star, not an NFL All-Pro. He's Gholston in the secondary. We already saw what happens when the Jets take a project of this calibre in the first round. It's high risk low reward.
holy fuck, Mack....you're bringin' on the Ditka...and we're not even half way thru the month of March yet.
Well, as long as we're talking about Taylor Mays... The one thing I like about Mays is that he can do this far better than Rhodes could.
