*I'm not trying to bash Jerry Hughes at all with this thread - the title may be a little misleading. I just don't want him on the Jets. So, with this thread, I'll let everyone know why I'm against the Jets drafting Hughes. I just don't understand why he's so highly regarded on this board. I would hate to see the Jets draft this kid - I think he's highly overrated right now because of his numbers. I think he'll have a decent career in this league as a situational pass rusher in the 4-3. Here's what I don't like about him as a 3-4 OLB: - not that tall and he has short arms. - never had to cover anyone in his life. - mediocre-at-best against the run - against top level players, he's been almost invisible - inflated numbers because of level of competition I'll usually be the first guy on TGG to stand up for mid-major talent, but the lineman that Hughes' faced in the MWC are some of the smallest offensive linemen in the FBS. I posted this in another thread: While Hughes reminds me mostly of Jason Babin, I also see shades of our very own Bryan "The Cactus" Thomas in him. I'm not trying to take anything away from him as a college player - he was very productive, and he was the best defender in his conference - I just don't like him as a 3-4 rush linebacker. I'm really interested to see how he performs in drills at the combine... Players I'd take over Hughes at this point Brandon Graham Jason Pierre-Paul Everson Griffen Eric Norwood Sergio Kindle Ricky Sapp Koa Misi They're will be a lot of 3-4 rush linebacker sleepers in the later rounds...guys like Antonio Coleman, Carl Ihenacho, Jarvis Geathers, Adrian Tracy, Thaddeus Gibson, and Jason Worilds are just some guys that come to mind.
You have a pretty good track record when it comes to the draft I disagree here though..I think Hughes would be a great fit in a 3-4. These are the same complaints that Elvis Dumervill received and he's turned into a top flight 3-4 OLB pass rusher. Only thing is Hughes will probably be a late 1st rounder, early 2nd rounder while Dumervill was a 4th rounder.
The kid has some talent great motor and speed and always knows where the ball is , and draws a lot of double teams , but maybe that only because of the lesser competition
Elvis Dumervil is just incredibly short. The kid was always amazing productive against Bix Six competition. That's what sets him apart from Hughes in this situation. I do not want the Jets to draft another developmental pass rusher high in this draft. Hughes will have to learn how to play standing up, and that could take a while. There's too much value at the back end of this draft to go after a developmental prospect this early.
I'm not saying that he isn't talented - he's very talented. His burst and first step are top notch. I just don't like him as a 3-4 OLB. I love Hughes' motor, and it's a reason why I think he'll be a better than average defensive end in the 4-3.
I've actually seen that comparison before, and I like it a lot. I think he can become a better than average pass rusher in the right 4-3 scheme. I think he's really overvalued right now though...especially by a lot of TGG posters.
I bet Dware just slit his wrists after reading this... :rofl: he's a big Hughes supporter, if i remember correctly.
I've never been a Hughe's fan...have him ranked 49 in my top 50. Hughes has ZERO coverage skills and in the bowl game was almost invisible. The TCU games I've seen...Washington was making the plays on defense..not Hughes. Daryl Washington, Hughe's teammate, is a much better football player and will have a better NFL career.
Don't forget: Vince Oghobaase (has a man crush)...a player that is so unproductive. Dez Bryant....thinks he's a Top 5 prospect and might be drafted in the Top 5.
He overrated Ogho big time. I think he's got the potential to start in the NFL, but he can't stay healthy, and as you said, he was very unproductive. Ogho's a 4th or 5th round prospect right now - the type of player that can fall into our laps, if we're lucky.
Sorry, I'll also have to disagree with your take on Hughes. I'll admit, I never really watch college football, but the highlight reels of this kid speak volumes of his abilities, especially when compared with others in this draft class. I also think he plays the run especially well, being able to shed blockers (sometimes even double-teams) with relative ease, getting after the rusher, and then tackling extremely well. He has a great burst off the line, and isn't simply a "one move wonder" (i.e. he's able to bull-rush, swim, spin, or simply speed rush the corner). All this, and he has a great motor, sometimes even when he's almost certainly out of the play, which is rare to see. I'm also not sure how 6-2 qualifies as being "not that tall". People have already mentioned Dumervil, but if that's not enough, what about Freeney? I know the league has been overrun the last 5-10 years with quality guys 6-4+, but I don't think that negates the quality that can come from guys 6-3 and shorter. Again, I don't watch college football too often, if ever, so I can't really form a solid opinion on his coverage abilities. But if we're drafting someone to put pressure on the QB, which I think we must, then I think coverage skills should be considered a distant second priority. To me, Hughes holds far too much value at 29 to not be taken, especially by a defensive team that thrives off getting pressure on the QB.
I already mentioned his great motor and work ethic. I watch a ton of college football, and I'll tell you this: the offensive linemen in the MWC are small compared to Big Six conference linemen. Hughes was a man amongst boys in that mid-major conference. Remember, you're watching a HIGHLIGHT tape. It's called a highlight tape for a reason. Those youtube videos you're watching aren't going to show any faults in his game. Read through this thread - I already addressed Elvis Dumervil vs. Jerry Hughes. Dwight Freeney isn't a 3-4 linebacker. He's a ridiculous pass rusher, but he plays in the 4-3. I really think Hughes is a 4-3 end, and not a 3-4 linebacker. It will be a very hard conversion for him. Hughes has never, ever been asked to cover. So, at this point, Hughes has no coverage abilities at all. (That we know of) As a 3-4 OLB, his only job isn't getting after the quarterback. He'll have to cover running backs, tight ends, and occasionally slot receivers. If this kid can't cover, offensive coordinators will go after him. READ THROUGH THIS THREAD: I do not think Jerry Hughes is a bad player, he's very good. I just don't see him working out in the 3-4. Posters on this board assume that he'll be a dominant pass rusher in our scheme because he put up good numbers in college. Looking at the Jason Babin comparison, that's no always the case.
That may be partially true, I just don't know. But here are at least three tackles he lined up with and made a number of big plays against (judging from his highlight reels): Virginia - 61 Will Barker T 6-7 320 Sr. BRYN MAWR, PA BYU - 72 Nick Alletto OL 6-6 318 Jr. PARKER, CO Utah - 70 Tony Bergstrom OL 6-6 300 So. SALT LAKE CITY, UT I'm aware. Though, considering I'm watching his against others' highlight tapes puts him on a level playing field for me. I know I can't make a full evaluation of him based on just highlights, but I also don't have access to all 13 of their games this season. TCU games aren't exactly popular torrents, ATM. I wish they were. We don't necessarily have to convert him to a 3-4 LB. I think him replacing a 32 year old Marques Douglas, or even eventually Shaun Ellis (also 32) would be a more appropriate fit. I also don't have a problem drafting a situational pass rusher in the first round, especially a guy with the potential of Hughes. Again, I don't think he necessarily will become a 3-4 LB in our scheme. We would greatly benefit from a pass rushing 3-4 LB; but Rex won't force the position on a rookie who's not up to the task. That said, I think (as mentioned above) that he could still make a positive impact playing DE in the 3-4. Even if it's only on 3rd downs. I know nothing of his numbers. College numbers means nothing to me, because they so rarely translate to the NFL. I've simply been going through the top prospects at DE/OLB, and this kid stands well out of the crowd (with the exception of Derrick Morgan). My draft hopes (at this time) are Hughes at 29, or if he's already taken, trading down for more mid-round picks. Just my $0.02.
The thing I like about hughes is he brings the biggest element our defense lacks, speed off the edge. He is raw and would be a situational rusher at first but I believe he has pass rushing tool to be very good in the NFL. He is not a complete player by any means. Lets face it though, JPP and Graham will most liekly be gone by our pick. If one of them was there I'm completely with ya that they are a better prospect than Hughes. The others on that list all have thier benefits and negatives in compareison to Hughes. All should be in the late first to 2nd range. I think he could be a very good weapon in this defense, but I'm confident in our staff at this point. The draft record with Tanny in charge has been very good thus far.
Of the three guys you listed, Barker is the only one with any kind of NFL potential...and he'll probably be a 6th or 7th round pick. Everyone in the country has the opportunity to watch him play during bowl season. That was the biggest game of Hughes' career, and he did close to nothing against Boise State. Yes, we do. Rex Ryan runs a 3-4 scheme, and the only way that Hughes could fit into it is at OLB. He's far too small to play defensive end in the the 3-4. It's not an appropriate fit at all, though. This draft is loaded with damn good 3-4 linemen. Hughes doesn't fit that description... I do, especially when we may have the opportunity to land a proven 3-4 OLB like Eric Norwood or Sergio Kindle at the end of the second round. Why spend a first round pick on someone that's not up to the task? That's the entire point of my thread. Also, why draft a player in the first round if he's only going to be on the field on third downs? Jerry Hughes is barely over 250 pounds. There's absolutely no hope for him at 3-4 end. No, he doesn't. As of right now, the only guy that's broken out of that pack is Brandon Graham. Derrick Morgan is not a 3-4 OLB prospect. Watch some tape on Jason Pierre-Paul, Sergio Kindle, Brandon Graham, Ricky Sapp, and Eric Norwood. They did their damage in BCS conferences.
I'm not saying that he's going to suck, I just don't agree that he's a top tier 3-4 OLB. His best fit in the NFL is at 4-3 end.
Go ahead, man. That's what this forum is for. Be sure to back it up though, because I'll be there to defend him.
