I think that has more to do with the ability Manning has in telling the OL what to do. Plus that OL might suck at run blocking but as a strictly pass-pro line it's excellent!
Pace is not a great edge rusher. He had 5 sacks all year if you take away the rout in Oakland when the Raiders QB's were slow and confused and the pass-blocking generally poor. You need a guy who is quick and strong and can be an evasive pass rusher when needed from the ROLB spot. Pace is fast but not quick and he's really not an evasive pass rusher at all. He gets his sacks off of contact with his man, just like a defensive end would. Pace, BTW, is much better than Bryan Thomas and if he could go back to the left side and play there he would be a huge plus for the team. The Jets have flopped Pace and Thomas back and forth a bit between the year in Mangini's 3-4 and the year in Ryan's but it appears they have settled on Thomas on the strongside and Pace on the weakside. We'd be much better off with a really good edge rusher on the right and Pace on the left.
manning can tell them to block jenkins but doing it is another story.you can't dge rush manning with db's.he feels that pressure and knows to get rid of the ball.you have to get in his face and make him move.look at the pats game 1 and the houston game.rex wasn't sending db's every down like he was after jenkins went down.we need jenkins back and a d.e. that can draw consistent double teams and this defense will be nasty.the idea is to have all 4 lb's be the "d.h." and let the o-line figure out who's coming.once you establish that the blitzing db's become lethal
Pace has shown he can be an effective pass-rusher. IMO, it goes back to the basics -- the DL, which can either (a) disrupt and/or (b) occupy blockers. If you can get two guys along the front that require double-teams, that means you'll have a player like Pace in a favorable one-on-one match-up, without having to send the house and expose the Secondary. While this following example is hypothetical and won't happen, I'm just using it to illustrate my point: Let's say the Jets add Seymour to the DL, and he plays alongside Jenkins and Ellis. Jenkins draws a double-team; Seymour gives opposing OL many problems; Ellis can be disruptive (although he's aging). If you send two guys (e.g. Pace and Leonhard/or another LB), that's a total of 5 guys. Even though it's unlikely any of those 5 guys go free to the QB, it will create one-on-one match-ups where someone has a chance to beat his man -- not to mention, the pre-snap confusion may allow one of those guys to go free. If you send one more guy - a total of 6 - you'll get pressure almost every time, but also have to rely on the Secondary a bit more; but since the pressure will come so quickly, the Secondary is at an advantage. In April, I think we should target a DL that either eats up space or is so disruptive that teams have to focus more on blocking him than the blitzers. Without having done any draft research yet, a guy like Cody comes to mind. Essentially, you want players on the DL who can create their own pressure if/when the blitzers are picked up.
I'm not gonna argue about whether or not Pace is a good pash rusher, but you know better than to use that logic. Give me a break
The second one... what I meant was that while usually in a Rex Ryan D if a CB makes a mistake he's on his own in our case having Revis allows us to roll coverage to the side of the #2 CB thus giving him a bit more protection and making him less of a liability...
We've got most of what we need. Think about the Baltimore personnel right now...: Ngata - Jenkins Ellis - Pryce Douglas - Himself...this is also heavily rotated with a bunch of DT/DE... Jenkins being back = Improved DL pass rush. I want a potentially starting caliber DE, and I'm a big fan of Vince Oghobaase. Pace - Suggs Scott - Scott Harris - Lewis Thomas - Johnson Thomas plays his role well enough and we're building depth behind him with Gholston/Westerman. Pace is a really good, really versatile player in his prime years and he won't be missing 4 games. CB - I like Revis and Lowery. Would love to draft another really athletic CB...Donovan Warren. S - Leonhard is fine and Rhodes has big time potential, even if he sucked most of this year. Then there's Smith and JI. I'd go: 1: CB 2: DE 3: Pass rusher I would love for a Merriman to slip to us during FA, but not sure if that can or will happen. I could see us signing an Antwan Barnes though...
This is my thinking we need to draft a DE high. Douglas is just a stop gap. If we can get some more beef in the interior we can not only help the pass rush by occupying more blockers, but also hold better against the rush. However, we also need to get the BPA when we draft, so I would not be upset if we got a corner or safety. Also with people talking about how the Ravens, I'm pretty sure we can get Thomas in the offseason. The Pats seamed pretty fed up with him.
I like this kid Vince Oghobaase. I wonder what the chance of getting him AND Cody Terrence is. This is my 2 cents (it's a mix of what you all have said): DE - Vince Oghobaase / Ellis NT - Kris Jenkins / Pouha / Green DE - Terrence Cody / Douglas Keep the LB's as they are unless some opportunity presents itself, and move Lowery to safety!!! Lito to Nickle. Draft or Trade for a starting CB. Now THAT team is #1 in run defense, and we don't get punked by the Colts varisity squad again. What do you ladies think? (Borgata's avatar makes me want to pee.) :-D
Haloti Ngata is actually an end in Baltimore...which if you think about it, is pretty fucking ridiculous considering how heavy that guy is. Kelly Gregg is one of the most underrated defenders in this league. He's done a hell of a job for the Ravens at nose tackle. We're going to see a heavy rotation of Mike DeVito and Marques Douglas next season. I'm really hoping that Pitoitua will make the 2010 roster as a rotational end. Like you said, we really need to get a starting caliber 3-4 end. Oghobaase would be a hell of pick at the end of round two, but there may be some better value there...you never know though. The Jets really need to trade into the middle rounds.
At this point, we don't have enough picks to go after back to back 3-4 defensive linemen that early in the draft. Also, Terrence Cody doesn't have the stamina to play 3-4 defensive end. He'd be a hell of a rotational nose tackle though. With Big Jenks and Mount Cody on the same team, we'd have a hell of a short-yardage defense.
Thomas needs to be replaced. Pace is not a pure pass rusher. That's a fantasy. Everybody wishes and dreams Pace was a 10 sack a year player, he isn't. Sending 6 is great, but if you can get there with 4 or 5, you have the ability to be more creative. The Jets have no one that offenses have to gameplan for when it comes to the blitz. If they did, this defense would be that better. new blood along the DL is also important. Ellis needs a replacement. I can see DeVito taking the spot across from him. Ellis has done an awesome job for the Jets his entire career. He will be missed in a couple of years.
I've been maintaining that Bob Sutton sucks, thus needs to be replaced - and got hammered for even thinking about that. Everybody then basically said something in tune of how great the LB play has been. My ass. Jets LB corp is, as good and effective as it has been, in need of some serious help. Maybe not at the talent level of the LB corp itself. The LBs must learn how to shed blocks quickly. Couple that with another double-team commanding DE along Jenkins, (in tune of Seymour) and now you can say Jets will have a very powerful passrushing attack. I just don't know what warrants such a bold statement, such as Bob Sutton as LB coach is competent, as I just do not see that competent coaching job from the LBs across the board. They suck at defending shallow zone. They also suck at shedding the blockers. They get to the QBs if and only if Rex's schemes allow them to. It's not surprising that some teams produce pro-bowl LBs out of virtually every prospect they draft, while some just suck so bad it hurts to see. Bob Sutton is not how you spell Pro-bowl LB producing coach. P.S. I would absolutely love someone like Keith Butler as the new LB coach - but I think Keith is pretty much set in Pittsburgh. Also... Pats are known for good LB factory, but I don't think they will give us one either, so that's out of question. Who else is available?
I know we like to rip Sutton on this board, but does he get no credit for Harris? I don't think he's a great coach, but our linebackers played well all year. Man, if our LB's suck, our DL sucks, and there are only two guys in our secondary worth keeping around, how the hell did we have the best defense in the NFL?
That's where we differ in opinion. I do admit Jets LB performed respectably - I'm not shortselling anything like that. I am just saying, that "performed respectably" is not enough to be a fierce, elite defense you need to be a true champion. If at all, that guy Peyton will be there to stop us for the near foreseeable future, and this "played well" LBs will not be able to produce enough. As I pointed out, current LBs all lack the common elements, which are shedding the block and staying on top of the shallow zone coverage. I am just suspecting that all LBs can't suck at the two common area to the level they have sucked without someone on top just completely ignorant about how to train against such weaknesses. P.S. As good as Harris has been, I somehow had doubt in his ability to cover the middle of the zone. When Vilma was here for us, we all thought of Vilma as the coverage LB while Harris was taking the responsibility of the hitman. Remember that? On top of that, Sutton wasn't even the LB coach in Harris's rookie tenure. If Sutton was that much competent in developing LBs, why do we have to endure countless scenes of TEs and slot WRs torching the LBs in the short field? This problem has no relevance to where in the field is the LoS - this LB corp gets torched a LOT. That includes the red zone too. If you remember two superbowls ago, the final scoring play happened to be an INT by OLB. Yes. That LB was from Steelers. In our case - Brady torched us with Welker, and then Manning torched us in AFCCG. Maybe current OLBs are too slow, and need replacing - if that's what it is. Speed or not, none of the LBs - regardless of OLB or ILB - exhibited a consistent technique to either get away from the defender or to shed the block. I strongly believe this one should be pinned on where it squarely belongs to - that is Sutton.
