The Peyton Manning Effect

Manning only won one Super Bowl, therefore he is not a good postseason QB. He should have won 4 or 5, or 8.

 

Thank the fat, whiny humps.

 

Yep, then w/ the game on the line missed a closer kick.

There were plenty of reasons to think he couldn't make it. He had good FP, timeouts left and 2nd and 2. There was no excuse for not getting closer.

They don't win that game w/o that defense but they almost lost the game b/c of the way the D played in the 4th qwtr and they aren't even a playoff team w/o Tom Brady.


Less time, no timeouts, 1st year QB w/ the SB on the line leads team to SB win- yeah that's mpre impressive. The McNair drive gets the award for almost best drive in SB history.

I never said it was all about Brady but the QB is the most important player on the field especially in a situation like that and to have the composure to make plays and get the ball into players hand that could makes plays was amazing.

It's not b/c he won just one SB. if he was playing great and their D was blowing it that would be one thing but in their postseason losses he has been the main culprit in most games. It's never all on one player but manning backers are always so quick to give him all the credit but never want to give him any of the blame.

 

A 46 yard FG for a professional kicker in a dome at home is like a 10 foot putt for a pro golfer. They make it 9 times out of 10. There was no reason not to think he could make the game tying FG if they needed him to.

And they are not a playoff team with out their defense. They allowed less than 20 points in 11 games as well as all 3 of their playoff games.

Less time by 20 seconds but Titans had more yards needed
SB was on the line for the Titans (they were trailing by seven not in a tie game like the Pats were)
Titans needed a Touchdown to tie
Titans drove the ball farther
Titans didn’t leave it up to the kicker to win it with a 48 yd FG
Titans drive was a mile more impressive than the Patriots drive

Brady didn’t make plays on that drive. Redmond and Troy Brown made plays. Dump off passes are not amazing

 

He had already called Vanderjagt the liquored up, idiot Kicker the year or 2 before. You think he had confidence in his K? He amde ONE Fg of at least 40 yds in his postseason career. A 46 yardre w/ the season on the line is far from a gimme.

You are just making excuses b/c he made poor decisiosn and b/c he couldn't pull out a game he was given multiple gifts in.

NE's D stunk in 2005 and they made the div rd, they make the playoffs in '01 but probably don't win that year b/c Brady wasn't quite ready to carry the load in postseason yet. That was the one year their D played like a big time D throughout postseason but again if Brady and the O do not rescue them on that great final drive they blow that game.


How many points did the Titans score on that drive? That's all we need to know. you don't get points for almost, you have to finish the drive. If the Giants don't score on that final drive would it be an all-time great drive? of course not. Same deal w/ Pitt last year.

Of course Brady made plays, he was the man in control keeping his composure w/ the pressure of a SB on the line.

 

He was in FG range for a kicker that hit 7 of 8 from that distance during the season.

What does 2005 have anything to do with the fact that they aren't in SB XXXVI without their defense and DO NOT win that game without their defense. THE OFFENSE is not in position to win that game if it isn't for the defense. That is a FACT.

Tennessee's drive was more impressive than the Pats drive in the fact that it went farther with a very little amount of time left on the clock and needing a TD. they nearly got the TD. It's more impressive than leaving a 48 yard FG try. They had more riding on their drive as well, because they were losing not tied. The drive was run better by the QB. If Brady threw the GW TD then I would probably feel different. But he left a long distance FG try for his kicker. The Pats drive is no where near the level of the 49ers SB XXIII, the Steelers XLIII or the Giants XLII drives. And the Titans drive was much more impressive and they nearly accomplished the Game Tying TD. 88 yards in 1:48 with 1 timeout needing a TD to tie. If they had scored the TD then it would have gone down as the 2nd best SB drive of all time. either way it's still more impressive than what the Pats did in SB XXXVI.

JR Redmond and Troy Brown made game/drive saving plays. Not Tom Brady.

 

You do realize postseason pressure is very different than the reg season, right? It's one of the reasons Peyton goes from possibly best ever QB in reg season to average QB in postseason.

In 2005 their D stunk and he led them to the playoffs. You said they don't get to the playoffs in '01 w/o that D.


Ten's drive was great but w/o scoring it means nothing.

I think Brady's drive in SB XXXVI was the 4th best in SB history behind those 3 I mentioned. Imagine if peyton led that drive(or anyone other than Brady so you can be objective) then maybe you can be fair about it and realize how great that drive was.

If the QB is rattled or scared in the big moment(like peyton) those players don't get the ball in their hands to make plays.

 

Was he or was he not in FG range?

I repeat...how does 2005 have anything to do with 2001?

Tennessee's drive is not any less impressive because they didn't score. Had they scored it would have made it more impressive sure. Brady did not score for NE he left it up to his kicker to hit a 48 yard FG (which according to you he should have gotten them closer because postseason pressure is very different than reg season pressure).

Pats offense moved the ball 52 yards set up a FG try while the game was tied
Titans offense moved the ball 88 yards and nearly scored a TD while the Titans were losing

The Patriots drive was less impressive than the Titans and McNair had 100% more to do with the Titans moving the ball than Brady did for the Pats.

 

He was in long FG range for a K that can't kick under pressure.

They didn't lsoe that game b/c of the K. they lost b/c that highpowered offense was shut down and the onyl reason it was close was b/c of the overturned Polamalu INT that clearly was an INT.

AGAIN, you said in '02 they wouldn't have made the playoffs if their D wasn't as good as it was. I gave an example of the D playing poorly and NE still making the playoffs.

Tennessee not scoring is like bases loaded bottom of the 9th down 4 runs and the hitter hits the ball to the wall. The job wasn't completed.

 

Can't kick under pressure? Like as in playoff pressure? He was 11/13 in the postseason going into that kick. I will say this to you again. There was no reason to think he would not make that kick.

And they wouldn't have made the playoffs in 2001 without their defense. This has absolutely nothing to do with their 2005 season. Were all of the players and coaches the same from 2001 to 2005? Were they all the same age? Why do you keep bringing up the 2005 team to compare to the 2001 team? There's no logic to it.

The drive to the wall is much more impressive from the batter than a pop up dropped by the second basemen allowing the winning run to score then giving all the credit to the batter for popping it up.

You can use analogies like this all you want, but McNair's drive was much more impressive in that it was further away, they were losing and needed a TD to tie instead of a FG. If the Titans needed only a FG to tie they would have easily gotten it. So from that point it's as equal to the Patriots drive. But they needed a TD and got it all the way to the goaline and was one spectacular defensive play away from tying the game. Much more impressive

 

He made ONE kick over 40 yards in postseason and in the same game he made that kick he msised a shorter one w/ a chance to win the game.

It's nice you have a scapegoat for that game but the real goat was peyton.

You are acting like the D carried Brady, how came that D was 5-11 the year before and 0-2 to w/o Brady in 2001? I bring up '05 showing he can get his team to the playoffs w/ poor defenses and he actually still won a playoff game unlike Manning who 6 times has been one and done in postseason- but I'm sure he gets no blame

The drive to the wall is more impressive than the popout but it's the same result! it didn't get the job done just like that would be great drive by Tennessee.


Again, I ask you to pretend manning guided that drive then compare. you have this irrational hatred for Brady(I Understand, I hate him too but I can seperate that hatred when discussing how great he is) and no matter what he does you always try to take credit away from him so pretend manning led the drive and let me know how great you would think it is.

 

He missed a 49 yard FG on the road in Miami. He was 11/13 in the postseason going into that kick. He had shown he could kick in the postseason and was very accurate from that range. There was no reason to think he wouldn’t make that FG.

What does the 2000 team have to do with the 2001 team? Belichick brought in a lot of Free Agents going into the 2001 season so the teams aren’t the same.

He had an uphill climb. He had to go 90 yards (not 50 or 55 but NINETY) just to tie the game with 1:48 left on the game. He got them all the way to the goaline and was a spectacular play away from the Game Tying TD. If you think leaving a 48 yd FG try is more impressive than that drive then fine. But McNair did more on his drive to put Tennessee in position to win than Brady did for the Pats.

Go ahead and use Chris Chander and the Falcons 70 yd drive to win the 1998 NFC Championship Game. It was nearing the end of OT and the game was tied. McNair’s drive is still more impressive.

 

how many of those kicks were undre pressure?

1999: 19-16 loss to Ten(late meaningless TD to make game look closer than it was) he kicked 2 40 yd FGs in the 1st half.
2000: made 32 and 26 yarders in 1st half then 50 yarder w/ lead.
2002: missed 41 yd Fg w/ Indy down 7-0.
2003: vs. den, made 27 and 23 yarders in blowout, made 45 yarder up 21-10 against KC(my mistake, he made 2 kicks over 40 yds in his postseason career)
2004: made 23 yarder in 2nd qtr at NE
2005:made 20 yarder in 2nd qtr

Only 2 of his kicks that he made came in situations where Indy was losing and they were both a little longer than PATs. Hitting 20, 23, 32, 26 yarders is not impressive.

You keep deflecting responsibility for this loss. It's on peyton's shoulders not the K.

In 2000 the "great" Bill Belichick and his defensive wizardry ran the Pats D- why were they 5-11? That team had McGinest, ted Johnson, Bruschi, law, Otis Smith, lawyer Milloy, Tebucky Jones, Bobby Hamilton who all started the next year.

He did have an uphill climb and he couldn't do it. You don't get bonus points for getting to the 1.

If they get that extra yard it does go down as an all-time great drive but they didn't and it doesn't.

 

There was nothing to say he couldn’t make the 46 yd FG no matter how much you try to spin it or how much you have tried to suggest that he was a choker. I haven’t discussed that game only the last 3 plays.

The 2000 team has nothing to do with the 2001 team. Factor in a bunch of new players a year in a new scheme with new coaches. The two teams were nothing alike.

It already is an all-time great drive. McNair had more to do with the success on that drive than Brady did on his and the drive was more impressive.

 

The only GW or game tying kicks he attempted in his postseason career he missed and missed badly.

You feel peyton did all he could that game and it was all on the Kicker?

teams turn around quickly, look at our D w/ mostly the same players from a year ago. They had most of their '01 starters in place for the 2000 season and that team was terrible in 2000 and started off terrible in 2001 until miraculously they put it together when Brady stepped on the field. Funny how that worked.


I guess our 1981 comeback against the bills was an all-time comeback even though we fell short on the last play.

We were a SB team in 1982 and 1998 according to this line of thinking. so we fell short, we almost made it so that's all that matters.

That drive was great but to call a drive an all-time great drive that didn't reault in points and saw that team lose b/c they didn't score points on that dribe is ludicrous.

 

Now you can mind read?? I never said Peyton did all he could that game. I said he had Vanderjagt in position to make a FG that was well within his range. That FG would have only tied the game. He went for the win after getting Vanderjagt in range.

That's right teams turn around quickly. Like the Pats did in 2000 and 2001. I didn't realize Brady was playing on defense. What position was he playing?

Again they let up less than 20 points in 14 of the 17 games they played in.

Who put the points up for the Patriots?

McNair led a much more impressive drive than Brady did and did more in leading that drive than Brady did. The Titans drive is an all-time great drive.

 

it doesn't matter whether either one is great or not, it matters that you absolve one for the exact same decision making as you criticize the other for -- settling for a FG, blaming one kicker for the miss when it suits your argument and absolving the coach and blaming the QB for not getting closer in the other and absolving the kicker. that's hypocritical, and hypocrisy is an indicator of a lack of logic you claim to attempt to posses.

 

quiet, knowledgeable posters are trying to have an intelligent discussion. Go hang out on the BS board.

Brady wouldn't have settled for the 46 yd FG w/ Vanderjagt especially not w/ 2nd and 2 and 1 timeout. I can help you if you can't see the major differences btw that playoff game vs. pitt in 2005 vs. Brady's games where he led them to late FGs

 

I get taking a shot on one of the doesn but both? That's not winning football. If you do take 2 shots you better be successful w/ one of them and he wasn't.

Brady instantly turned that team around. You think it was a coincidence that he comes in and all of a sudden they reverse a 5 year trend of getting worse every year?

I just don't get your hate for Brady and why you can never give him credit. Take a step back and realize what you are saying. You are giving one QB more credit for ALMOST leading his team to the tying score than the QB who led his team to the WINNING points in the SB. You are a great poster, I respect your opinions but something about Brady makes you post crazy things.