I'm surprised it was a thread about rules long enough to be considered a thread about rules before it turned into a Junc "Manning sucks int he playoffs" thread.
wait a minute, now Manning is a choker because he never led his team to a late TD in a loss? you are grasping at straws here. and now you criticize him for trying to go for a TD instead of playing for the FG. if they hit the FG and lost in OT, you'd criticize him for settling for a closer FG and not go for the TD and you know it. just ridiculous. not to mention the hypocrisy of your absolving Herm Edwards for not getting his kicker closer and putting all the blame on Brien. the idiot kicker was well within his range, shouldn't he have hit it? you had to assume he would, so the only logical conclusion as the QB is go for the win before settling for the FG since you have to assume he was close enough. just a laughable exhibition of asinine logic and hypocrisy even for you.
Yep. Tony Dungy used to rest people regularly in the last game or two of the season. Pretty amazing if you think about it because the Colts won something like 113 games over the last decade anyway. Figure they gave away 2 or 3 more resting guys at the end of the year.
I'm here to educate, people see the great fantasy #s and think peyton is the greatest. They refuse to see just what this choker has done when his team has needed him most. As long as this comes up I'll keep proving my argument UNTIL he starts playing in postseason like he does in the reg season. Once that happens I lose my argument but until then this argument is a slam dunk. Manning is a choker b/c he has led those highpoweres O'd to less than 14 PPG in their 8 playoff losses. I just pointed out that even when Brady doesn't have a great game he still led his team 80 yds in the final mins to take the lead in the SB only to watch his D blow it- that has NEVER happened to peyton. I criticize him in the Pitt game for not moving the chains and getting a closer kick for the kicking version of Peyton manning(great reg season, choker in january). On and 2nd and 3rd and 2 to not move the chains is inexcusable. If he played well they don't lose that game, it never even has a chance to get to OT but despite being given numerous gifts he couldn't even get the game to OT. So Herm is the coaching version of peyton? I didn't realize Herm was an all-time great reg season coach and what herm did was see a K miss a 47 yarder moments earlier by inches as it hit the crossbar. I disagree w/ taking the knee but had it been a 41 yarder instead of 43 he still pushed it wide. That situation isn't anything like Indy vs. Pitt 2005 div rd. NO ONE assumed he'd hit that Kick, that's why peyton needed to get into chip shot range instead of near 50. I LOVE all the excuses the manning backers come up w/. It's never his fault, he only gets credit when they win. Actaully he is likle Herm to you guys- only the opposite. When the Jets lost it was b/c of herm and when they won it was in spite of him. When Indy wins it's b/c of peyton, when they lose it's b/c of everyone but peyton. The coach hasn't really mattered. They also did it w/ Mora though peyton played longer in the finale. They are 0-3 when they have a 1st rd bye- that is an amazing #.
I didn't change the topic of the thread, another poster did. So when it turns to a Peyton lovefest I have to educate.
No, you just like to argue. And when it comes to Indy, you immediately go into the attack mode and find a way to turn it into another tired debate about Manning in the playoffs. The original premise of the thread is rules and what preceded rules changes. These same arguments can be applied to other QBs as well, the "Brady Rules" for example.
An 80 yard drive on the yards gained by Wes Welker. Why is it whenever the Pats go on a late drive you give Brady all the credit, but none to his teammates….the ones who actually made the plays. And if Welker is a glorified RB as you have suggested, then Brady should get NONE of the credit for that drive. You praise Brady for setting up Vinateri for a 45 yard FG in a blizzard but kill Manning for going for the GW TD when he has Vanderjagt set up for a 47 yard FG in a dome…. According to you the Pats only win because of Brady and NEVER his teammates, but when the Pats lose its because of his teammates. You are the definition of a double standard.
I happen to always root for Indy in postseason so I don't hate them and go into "attack mode". I give honest opinions on them. Who cares what WR he threw balls to? Welker caught 4 pases, one ofn which went for ZERO yds. The biggest play of that drive was the only 3rd down they faced, 3rd and G from the NYG 6 and he threw a TD to Moss. The difference is Brady has no timeouts and got the ball in great FP in a blizzard. manning had great FP w/ 3 timeouts and had 2dn and 3rd and 2 from the Pitt 28 but couldn't move the chains. Manning and the World knew the K was a choker and that a 46 yarder was a really tough kick for him. They get 10-15 more yds and it's a chip shot but he took not one but TWO cracks at the EZ needing just 2 yds to move the chains. Brady was also a 1st year QB in his first playoff game, manning was an 8 year vet of multiple playoff years. Not ONLY b/c of Brady but MOSTLY b/c of Brady just like Indy doesn't lose ONLY b/c of Manning just mostly b/c he doesn't step up when they need him most. There's absolutely no double standard. When did I blame Pats teammates for their loss in Denver? In Indy he put up 27 pts w/ Reche Caldwell and jabar gaffney as his WRs. In the SB he didn't play a typical Brady game but he still led them on the go ahead TD drive in the final mins. Show me one example of peyton doing that only to watch his D blow it?
Of course the biggest play of that drive was the TD pass. But they aren’t in that position if it wasn’t for Welker the “glorified RB”. Vanderjagt was 7 for 8 from 40-49 that year. How was a 46 yd FG try a “reatlly though kick for him” in the DOME? If they get 10-15 yards more for a chip shot FG to tie. If he gets the ball in the endzone they win. Why wouldn’t he go for the GW TD when they were already in FG position? I don’t care if Brady was in his 1st playoff game. He still left it up to Vinateri to hit a 45 yd FG in a blizzard and yet you give all of the credit to Brady. Mostly because of Brady?? Like a 45 yd FG by Vinateri in a blizzard? Or like JR Redmond getting out of bounds to stop the clock after catching a swing pass to save the drive in SB XXXVI? Then leaving Vinateri a 48 yd FG try because he couldn’t push the ball down the field. Or because of Vinateri and the defense in the 2003 AFC Championship Game…They definitely did not win “Mostly because of Brady”
Welker caught 3 balls on that drive(I made a mistake saying 4): 1st and 10 from NE 20, 5 yd gain 2nd and 1 from NE 44, 13 yd gain 2nd and 6 on NYG 39, 10 yd gain Not one of those plays was on a 3rd down and only one was somewhat of a big play(the 2nd and 6 play). Who cares what vanderjagt was that year? That's like saying Peyton manning is great in the reg season. This was postseason, he was the kicing version of peyton manning. he needed to get him closer and he had a great opportunity to do so in a game they had no business even being in if not for multiple gifts. I don't give all the credit to Brady, Vinatieri is the greatest clutch K of all time. W/o him his job would have been more difficult but peyton has had that same K for 4 yars now- where are his 3 SBs in 4 years? W/o Brady that 2001 pats team isn't even in the playoffs to make that kick so yes mostly Brady. Brady has elevated his teams in postseason, Manning has not. The only postseason the D played great for Brady was 2001 and in that SB they blew a 14 pt 4th qtr lead only to be rescued by Brady w/ one of the greatest drives in SB history.
They only had one third down in that drive. You don’t think a 13 yard gain that put them into Giants territory is a big play? You made the statement that it was a really tough kick for him. It clearly wasn’t when he was very accurate from that range. They were in Vanderjagt’s range to tie the game if they needed to. He didn’t get the job done. It had nothing to do with their top 5 defense or their clutch kicker or their effective running game right? They weren’t rescued by Brady no matter how many times you say it. They were rescued by a great play by JR Redmond and a great kick by Vinateri. They aren’t even in that game at the end for Vinateri to kick that FG if it weren’t for the defense.
Not on 2nd 1 it wasn't a big play. It was a nice play but not critical. It clearly was a tough kick for him. In 2000 w/ a chance to beat Miami he msised a 49 yarder after hitting a 50 yarder earlier in the game. he missed a 41 yarder against us in '02, he had ONE career FG in postseason over 40 yards and that was the 50 yarder against Miami in the game he missed a shorter one later to win the game. The smart play would have been to get the first down, I get that he went for the EZ the first time but twice? Asinine. Their top 5 defense gave up a 14 pt 4th qtr lead. has Indy's D ever done that? He led one of the greatest drives in SB history.
He had Vanderjagt in range for a makeable FG. Their Top 5 Defense held one of the best offenses in NFL History to 17 points, returned an INT for a TD, caused 2 other turnovers that resulted in an additional 10 more points. Their Top 5 defense was the only reason they were even in that game. That drive isn't even Top 5 in SB history and was driven off the legs of JR Redmond, Troy Brown and Adam Vinateri.
A long FG w/ the season on the line, a Fg he could have turned into a chip shot. They also blew a 14 pt lead, that great O didn't score a ton in ther previous SB either. The bottom line is the D blew a 14 pt 4th qtr lead and if that game gets to OT and SL wins the toss they are winning that game. That drive was one of the best in SB history. I can only think of 3 off the top of my head that were better- SF '88, NYG '07, pitt '08.
It was one that he made with regularity throughout his entire career. There was no reason to expect him not to make it if they needed him to. They were the ONLY reason the Pats were in that game. 17 points prior to Vinateri's FG ALL came on turnovers. McNair's in SB 34 was better. McNair single handedly marched the Titans inside the Rams 10. If it weren't for a great defensive play that game was going into OT. He got the ball at his own 10 with 1:48 left and 1 time out. Of course you wouldn't consider that a better drive because it didn't end with a long FG attempt to win, but McNair had to score a TD. His drive was by far a much better drive than the 2001 Pats.
One that he couldn't make in postseason, it would have been wise to get him a little closer. Doesn't matter how they got there, that "great" D almost blew it. That was the one postseason the pats D did play great but again they almost blew it. Mcnair's drives ended w/ NO POINTS! You don't get points for almost. if they completed that drive w/ the TD then yes it would move ahead but they didn't score. I don't think you realize what Brady and the Pats O did. NE had NO timeouts w/ 1:21 to play starting at their own 17 w/ a 1st year QB. No one in their right mind thought NE would even risk it in that situation and the young QB led them to the GW FG.
I know QBs. Chad has nothing to do w/ this, he is not judged on the same level as those guys. if he is you think he is an alite QB which he is not. Fantasy stats are great but the great ones seperaate themselves in big games which is why Manning and favre are nowhere near the top 5. Still great, HOF QBs but on a different level than guys like Montana, Graham and Brady.
he kicked a 50 yarder on the road in the postseason. There was no reason to think he couldn't kick a 46 yarder at home in the dome to tie the game. A TD would have won it. how does it not matter how they got there? You act like Brady saved them after they played miserable all game long but the facts are they don't win that game without the defense. This is a simple fact that you cannot grasp and I cannot figure out why unless it's because you have an agenda. 90 yards in 1:48 with one timeout and needing a TD to tie the game. They move the ball 88 yards and nearly score and you think a 52 yard drive that ends in a 48 yd FG is more impressive? I get that McNairs drive didn't end up in poitns. But he had further to go and needed a TD. Plus McNair carried the Titans on that drive unlike Brady I get what the O did. I get what JR Redmond did. I get what Vinateri did. What I don't get is that you think that was all Brady. What exactly did Brady do that was so impressive? Dump it off to Redmond?
