greatness isn't just determined by statistical analysis, so more abstract concepts like clutch are extremely relevant to the discussion, and this D was anything but clutch at the end of one score games.
Unfortunately, there's no statistical evidence that something like "clutch" even exists. All great defenses perform in the clutch at about the same rate as any other time. Which is why when you start talking about something like that, it becomes a useless subjective argument. You could just as easily say, for example, the Jets D was clutch when it stopped game tying/winning drives from Tennessee, New England or Buffalo. A 50% success rate isn't bad. Most of the defenses that are considered for the "greatest of all time" actually had rates of about 40% so it's most likely a statistical anomaly. Saying this defense wasn't "clutch" enough to be considered great is a meaningless statement. Most of the defenses above simply didn't have that many opportunities to fail since they were paired with better offenses or played against inferior competition.
Actually, I said that they're at or around the same numbers for a lot of the counting stats. But, that the Jets played against better offenses, so they even out. Granted, we padded our stats for a quarter and a half against the Colts and two quarters against the Bengals, but that's not much compared to a 16 game season. I'd bet most of those teams padded their stats much more against inferior competition (with the exception of the 91 eagles). I still stand by my statement. We just witnessed a historically good defense statistically. We played the league's #1 offense (NO), #3 offense twice (NE) and #4 offense (HOU). No other team on that list can come close to that level of competition. The defense gave up 10 points to the #1 offense, 9 and 17 to #3 and 0 to #4. That, my friends, is a great defense.
Are you asking a question or making a statement? If you are asking if this Jets D is an alltime D..... Well it clearly isnt at this point. A very good to great statistical D does not necessarily correlate to being a top 5-10 D of all time. I do not think anyone that has watched football for a long time could or would say this D is an all time D. If they did I would question their judgment. This D is certainly not of the caliber of 85 Bears or the 2000 Ravens, to name a few. I just do not see how that is a slap or knock against this D as this D is pretty damn good. It certainly has the potential to be in the top 10. The Jets just need a player or two .................
cause sanchez puts them on the feild more than they have to be with the amount fo turnovers, any defense would be gassed toward the end of a game
That question was being asked of the talking heads after the game Sunday night and they thought the sack exchange was even better than this defense. This one has a great corner but really no one who can rush the passer on his own. Pace comes closest but he really isn't that great at it.
Let's see this D carry this team to the SB then we can talk historically good. They had great #s but great D's don't get beat up by Miami, blow late leads to jax and Atl and get torn apart against NE. it's a really good D w/ a chance to be great.
We had a good defense. Not a great one. While I don't blame the defense for the Atlanta loss, they had no answer for the Dolphins and the Jaguars marched right down the field on them at the end of the game. All-Time great defenses don't allow those GW drives.
What game was the D gassed that they blew? -at Miami sanchez and the O had ZERO turnovers -vs. jax sanchez had 2 INts, one on the first play of the game and the 2nd the D got right back. jax had it 31 mins compared to 29 for the Jets -vs. Atl Sanchez had 3 INts but one came on the final real play. The Jets held the ball longer than Atlanta so why were they gassed?
1st year with a new coach and our defense is rated # 1 in the NFL , I'm just exited to see what he can do with this organization in the coming years. Now as for the all time great conversation you also have to factor in all the rule changes of the 90s and 2000s that helped make he NFL a more offensively friendly leauge.
i don't think you are gonna find anyone who will agree that this is an all time great d. i think we revisit this conversation next year when jenks is back and we add an edge rusher.you'll see a few votes swing that way
Palmer went 1/11 with 0 yards and our backups were in for most of the 4th quarter, the Bengal game isn't in the same hemisphere as the Colts game. And you have to mention that we lost our 2nd most important player on the defensive side of the ball for most of the season I am not ready to put this defense on the greatness scale yet but if they can make some noise in the playoffs that will easily change my mind
Jealous Steeler fan has finally arrived- We beat the shit out of Carson and the Bungals, while the almighty Steelers lost to them twice. Beat them once and you are in- You have such a storied franchise you can't be too upset.
Just throwing this out there, but as was mentioned in the NFL forum, Chris Johnson (you know that guy with 2000 yards rushing and 2500+ from scrimmage?) was held to under 100 yds rushing against the Jets by our D.
Oh and by the way what did we do to the NFL qb with most yrds from scrimge (schaub) and leagues leading reciever( A Johnson)?
This D shouldn't be mentioned as one of the all-time greats. They are damn good, best in 2009, but not great. However, I fully expect Rex to field an all-time great defense sometime in the next three years. It's cool looking at the "quarterback" that played against us this season: 259 of 501 51.7% 2,459 yards 8 TD's 17 INT's 58.8 rating That's a pretty lousy quarterback. When this defense gets really good, I expect to see a Jamarcus Russell stat line.
no kidding, that's why it's an abstract concept, but one we all seem able to identify, even if it isn't statistically quantifiable.
Jets' fans NEVER fail to amaze me with their absolute and total self-loathing as if you’re all a bunch of emo kids with black nail polish. Of course our defense is great. They blew it a few times in the fourth but most of the time that was due to time of possession and they simply were worn out. I can’t believe all the, “Jets’ defense isn’t great” comments. This is the one time its okay to be a homer because we have the #1 defense in the league by far. That said, you can not compare stats of the 85 Bears and other defenses with the Jets of today. It is a completely different game and we are facing much more powerful offenses than teams of the past.
So basically, if someone disagrees with you, you'd question their judgment. How's that for open-mindedness? If we had an offense that was even average passing-wise, we would have gone 12-4 at least and everyone would be saying how this is an all-time defense. You can't penalize the defense for a poor passing game that produced a ton of turnovers. The offense and special teams gave up 20% of the points this team gave up. You put this defense in for the 2000 Ravens with their schedule and I think they do just as well. Same for the 1985 Bears. At least the numbers seem to indicate so.
It's an abstract concept that we can't identify consistently. It's not something we all agree on, which is why it's a subjective and ultimately futile argument. You've been arguing that the Jets D wasn't clutch, but I've been saying they've been as "clutch" as any of those other defenses. Statistically, I'm right. You're arguing something without any objective evidence which makes this a dumb argument.
