I've been looking at some numbers and I actually think the Jets defense this year stack up pretty well against the best defenses of all time. The main article I'm going to reference is this one: http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2009/3/10/775679/a-statistical-analysis-on That article references the best NFL defenses: 1973 Los Angeles Rams 1976 Pittsburgh Steelers 1977 Atlanta Falcons 1985 Chicago Bears 1991 Philadelphia Eagles 2000 Baltimore Ravens 2008 Pittsburgh Steelers (btw, notice how 3 of these defenses were directed by a member of the Ryan family?) The guy's clearly something of a steelers homer, but the numbers there are good to reference. I haven't run all the numbers yet, but here are our 16-week numbers: Defense Yards Rank: #1 Defense Scoring Rank: #1 Pts/G: 11.8 (note this subtracts the 7 return TDs) Yds/G: 252.3 Pass TD/INT: 11/17 Rush TD/Fumbles: 8/14 Yards/Play: 4.2 All of these numbers are around or a little worse than the numbers for the teams listed above. The big thing about the analysis is that he takes into account opposing offenses. The 2000 Ravens, for example, played most of their games against the bottom half of the league. I haven't run the numbers yet, but I'm fairly certain we've played against better competition than most of these teams with the exception of the 91 Eagles. So did we just witness an all-time defense? Personally, I think we're definitely in the discussion for the top 3.
Not even close to an all-time defense. We lost games this season because the defense could not hold a lead in the last 5 minutes of the game and had the other team drive 80 yards against them for the score. A good defense? Yes. A great defense in terms of the all-time greats? Not even on the same page.
Granted, we lost games, but so did all of those teams. That's not really a valid argument. 11.8 points per game is better than the '85 Bears. Seriously, you can look it up. Personally, I think we were hurt by the lack of a better passing game on offense as it would have let our defense rest a bit more and not have to stop the other team so many times. Statistically, we're among the all-time greats.
I think you can put them on the page, just not near the top- I agree this defense did not finish some games as a All-Time great would. With the way our offense played during those games, you can only ask so much. The defense can't be 100% successful. Even Mariano Rivera gives up a HR everyone once in awhile.
stats only tell so much. you have to ignore the fact that the D lost 3 games in the final minute this season. I guarantee none of those teams mentioned did that, and therein lies the difference between great D's and great statistical D's, which the Jets clearly are.
Seriously, look at the numbers instead of a subjective 'they should have done X'. They're really an all-time defense and deserve to be considered among the top 3.
I'm not ready to call this defense great, but they didn't have a lot of help with the offense turning the ball over to the other team constantly and tiring them out so they couldn't hold to fort at the end of the game. Even great defenses get tired. The one thing I think is really holding this defense back is quality depth on all 3 levels. They're going to need it if Sanchez takes too long to develop.
I can tell you for the 2008 steelers (the only one I looked up), their D lost the game for them in the final 3 minutes twice: Week 8 vs Giants: 21-14 (Giants score the go-ahead TD with 3:07 remaining) Week 10 vs Colts: 24-20 (Colts score the go-ahead TD with 3:10 remaining) They were 12-4 last year, so half their losses came in games where they lost because their defense couldn't get a stop. I'm going to look up a few more to see, but my guess is that all defenses on this list have losses like this.
how did the '85 bears defense do against fn miami? how did the ?? ravens 'all time best defense' do against the jets last game of the year? none of the teams listed had perfect seasons and closed out every oponent. 2009 jets are the best D of all time.
The defense allowing only 19 TDs all year is pretty damn impressive, but I'm not going to get into an "all-time great" argument.
and both of those teams made the playoffs, and were the last two Super Bowl Champs. the Jets lost games in the final minutes all against non-playoff teams. not only that, but they let all three drive pretty much the entire length of the field.
any argument dependent on extremes is inherently a flawed argument. the idea that since those other great D's did not go undefeated the Jets D must be the greatest in comparrison is extreme and completely ridiculous.
The numbers will say this is one of the greater defenses... But the late collapses in some games eliminates this defense from greatness at this point
That Ravens defense gave up 2 TDs in the first 5 minutes of that game and then demoralized the Jets offense for the rest of the game to the tune of 3 interceptions and allowing 2 field goals for the rest of the game. The Jets only ran the ball 19 times because they were playing from behind for almost the entire game even with those 2 early TDs. Vinny had 69 passing attempts - the most of any Jets QB in a single game in the history of the franchise. The only reason the Ravens didn't kill Vinny was because he was being protected by the best offensive line in the league. I wouldn't be so quick to call a 34-20 drubbing of the Jets an example of failure by a great Ravens defense. (by the way, the Jets were fighting for their playoff lives in that game and the Ravens, from what I remember, were playing for nothing in that game)
2000 Ravens: Week 7 vs Redskins: 10-3 Redskins score the go-ahead TD in 4th Quarter (hard to tell when, but it was 3-3 at the time) 1991 Eagles: Week 6 vs. Tampa: 14-13 Defense allows 2 TD's in 4th Quarter (up 13-0 to 14-13) Week 16 vs. Dallas: 25-13 Defense allows 17 4th Q points to lose (up 10-8 to down 25-13) 1985 Bears: Only lost 1 game to the phins, but that was not a 4th quarter collapse 1977 Falcons: Week 7 vs Vikings : 14-7 lost to vikings giving up a 4th quarter TD (tied 7-7 at the time). Week 10 vs Saints: 21-20 lost to Saints giving up a 4th quarter TD (winning 20-14 at the time). Week 12 vs. Patriots: 16-10 lost to Patriots giving up a 4th Q TD (winning 10-9 at the time) 1976 Steelers: Week 1 vs Oakland: 31-28 gave up 10 points late to lose (was winning 28-21) Week 3 vs NE: 30-27 winning 20-9 early 3rd quarter, gave up 3 straight TDs. 1973 Rams: Week 8 vs Falcons: 15-13 gave up 2 late FGs to lose (was winning 13-9) Granted, the Jets may have had a few more of these late collapses than the others, but it's not unusual to see late collapses even among the great defenses. Statistically, we're among the best ever. You can argue whatever about whether it actually was, but there's no denying this was one of the finest defenses in the league in the last 40 years. To me, the data seem to say most of these teams had collapses at a rate of about .4 per loss. So if the team had 5 losses, there was about 2 that were due to a defensive collapse at the end.
This is where the numbers do count though- We hold Atlanta to 3 points the entire game. No position or side of the ball can ever be 100%. If that was the measuring bar every HOF player or all-time great would suck in comparison to that expectation. If other phases of the team didn't fuck up the defense would not be in that position to begin with. We should've won that ATL game 16-10, which makes that last drive pointless. Holding any team to 10 points should result in victory. Don't let the Fatcessa shit cloud your judgement.
Exactly. If you say that great defenses should always stop their opponent, there are none. We kept them to 3 points until the very end. Points are points. TD's are worth 6 if you score them in the 1st quarter or the 4th.
every possession is independent of one another. it doesn't matter how many times they stopped them prior, at the end of the game, when faced with pressure, the D failed at its job. that is why they aren't one of the best D's of all time. we needed stops, the D could not get them. Great D's, especially great D's of all time, make those stops. call me crazy, but I think being able to come up with stops at the end of games to win is a vital requisite to being in this conversation.
That's like saying a baseball hitter sucks because he didn't hit the game winning hit more than 50% of the time. All evidence points to every historically great defensive team letting their team down at least once (with the noted exception of the Bears). If you want to define greatness by an elusive concept like "clutch", be my guest. The hard numbers say the Jets are one of the best of all time, which was my original point.
This isn't a definitive list of all the great defenses. Just what the writer considers some of the best ever. What your opinion also does not seem to take into consideration is that you played both the Colts and Bengals 2nd teamers in the crucial part of the season. Not saying you guys couldn't stop Peyton or Palmer/Benson, but you sure padded your stats a bit against them. Especially the Bengals. You said yourself your numbers are a bit worse than these other teams. There's no denying the Jets had a great defense this year, but to start saying it is top 3 all time? Sorry. Just isn't the case.
