Chad definitely had a better career as Jet. Only if he was durable and healthy and we would have been a championship team with him and Curtis Martin and Wayne Chrebet
We'd be 11-3. Nothing against Sanchez though, but you're right. A veteran with the type of year he had in '98? The defense is the best we've had in the last 20 years. Vinny would thrive big time.
Kenny O began like a lion and ended like a lamb. The guy got his ass handed to him many a time. Chad wouldn't have lasted through the pounding O'brien took. That said, Chad would have been smarter and gotten rid of the ball or checked down where O'brien looked for a play. Hard to compare the two. I've had fond memories of both.
Well, he had a 10-point cushion and couldn't close the deal - and remember his draw play? It's harsh to pin a defeat on one player, but that's the way it goes, especially for QBs. Like I said, I loved O'Brien, but no playoff victories is a big black mark.
Kenny O gets bonus points for being from L.I. That said, I did like Richard Todd for his guts...but boy could he stink up the joint at times. The Jets in the early 80's were fun to watch. Sometimes anyway.. No mention of Pete Liske?:breakdance:
Vinny's 1998 season was the best season any Jet QB ever had individually. O'Brien had an excellent OL most of his time here(at least early in his career), he was taking sacks b/c he was always looking to make the big play downfield. Alot like Drew Bledsoe was always taking sacks- slow footed guys who were always looking to make the big play. The D lost us 2 games and STs lost us 2 games so at best we'd be 10-4 and that's assuming vinny leads us to a win in NO and in NE. O'Brien is from California.
The two following quotes regarding the game would seem to indicate that the offensive line and the defense had a much larger share of the blame: "The furious rally was led by quarterback Bernie Kosar, who set playoff records with 33 completions in 64 attempts for 489 yards." "That's when the Cleveland defense, which sacked Jets' quarterbacks Pat Ryan and Ken O'Brien a playoff record-tying nine times, dug in. " When your defense gives up close to 500 yards and your OL gives up nine sacks, it is pretty hard to call out the QB for a 20-23 double overtime loss.
While you are right about O'Brien's lack of mobility and style (looking for the big play), Pennington had a much better offensive line than O'Brien did. Kevin Mawae belongs in the hall of fame and Jumbo Elliot is a borderline HOF player as well.
He didn't help, he came in and we had the lead. All we needed was maybe a 1st down in the final minutes and we couldn't get one. In 2 OTs he never got us close to FG range. It's not HIS fault, there's plenty of blame but he didn't really do anything to help us win.
Jumbo was an average at best LT, he's nowhere near a HOF discussion. the man never even made an all-pro team or a pro bowl. Mawae should get in but we were a better run blocking OL than pass blocking and while those OLs were good they were very overrated as the mid 80s OLs were very underrated. Marvin Powell is a true borderline HOfer and should be in, Joe Fields was not mawae but he was damn close, Dan Alexnadre was a really good guard, Jim Sweeney was really good.
By the time O'Brien was starting for this team, age and injuries started to take their toll on those guys. Sweeney who was an excellent center was playing out of position at tackle. Any arguement that O'Brien had anwhere near the protection that Pennington had is an absolute joke. Also, the rules had been changed to protect the QB and WR since O'Brien stopped playing. They were barely even playing the same sport considering the way QBs are coddled now. As for Jumbo Ellliot, the only difference between the Giants regular season loss to Buffalo and their SB win was that Elliot didn't play in the regular season game. To call Elliot an average LT is a disgrace, the guy was a stud and nearly helped us get a SB in 1998.
I think hat is the level of debate for most NFL teams. Meaning that I do not believe that most of the NFL Teams have had two great QBs in their recent history. I am defining great like for example Griese and Marino Staubach and Aikman Starr and Farve (if you think he is great) Unitas and Manning Montana and Young LaMoncia and Stabler Alot of teams are just like us Maybe they had or in some cases have that one special QB, but other than that, they have other guys that have played the position. Hell some teams have not had a great QB. The Bears come to mind also the Cardinals, unti they got Warner, the Lions. I do not think that we are unique in debating over two good but not great QBs
O'Brien was the better Qb who had the great misfortune of playing behind a weak OL. Yes, he had great players at the skill positions, but because of that OL he got pounded, and that very much took its toll on him. Quite obviously China Dollington would not have lasted more than two seasons behind that line, so that alone makes the comparison a bit of an apples and oranges one. It can be like that in team sports. Imagine comparing Marino and Elway if Elway had never been able to last long enough to have those more balanced SB winning teams around him, only to have lost the ones he'd been in before. Then the fact that Marino had only been in one and it was a loss would have moved the comparison to one merely based on stats, ignoring that Marino for most of his career had an OL in front of him engineered for pass protection, and mostly great wideouts, while Elway had neither. Most, if not all, would say Marino was the better Qb under those circumstances. Add back in Elway's actual experience of lasting long enough to get those two SB wins, though, and the contest comes back to him. Some here have noted that teams Chad was on won playoff games. True, but he also quite often looked awful in the playoffs - shouldn't that be taken into account? Leading an O that only scored 3 points is part of Chad's not so great legacy as well. And O'Brien never had a conference leading rusher behind him, either. I take points away from O'Brien for his decline that occurred too soon in his career, even if I don't think that was anywhere near entirely his fault, but still and on the whole, he was the better Qb, he was tougher, had a better arm, and threw the ball down the field.
It would depend on your age. Ken O'Brien played longer for us as a starter than Pennington did, especially if you include the injuries.
o'brien walked into the primes of the careers of the talent around him. I'm sorry, I got Fabini and Jumbo confused b/c Chad never played w/ jumbo(as a starter) so I assumed you were talking about Fabini. W/ all that said jumbo was a GOOD, not great, LT and the difference btw the reg season Buf game and SB XXV was not Jumbo. They lost a close game in the reg season and won a close game in the SB. The difference in SB XXV was Hostetler holding onto the football on the sack in the EZ and mark Ingram getting that 1st down breaking 19 different tackles. Do you remember the in the grasp rule in the mid 80s? You basically touched a QB and he was considered down so they were protetcing the QBs back then too. I think both. Ken was my favorite as a kid, Chad as an adult(I don't really have favorites the way I did as a kid but I really appreciate all Chad did for us).
Really? I thought he was born in Rockville Centre. I checked Wikipedia...listed as born in Rockville Centre. Also saw this- "Only one quarterback has accomplished a perfect passer rating with more than 400 passing yards. Ken O'Brien." And this-"Only two quarterbacks have accomplished a perfect passer rating with 30-or-more attempts. Ken O'Brien threw 26-for-32 in his perfect game for a completion rate of 81%, while Kurt Warner threw 24-for-30 in his perfect game for a completion rate of 80%. Go figure.
Ken may have been born in Rockville Center but he was a California kid. HS and College (UC Davis). Now on the other hand Vinnie T. (the 2d best Jets QB ever) is Brooklyn through and through baby.
I'm not sure if that is right but I guess he could have been born here but he grew up in California. Vinny grew up on Long Island
