So, you want to make a personal attack while we are talking football? I think that undermines the credibility of your argument.
Meh. Sanchez has played more downs than Clemens. Your argument has no credibility. What does being a rookie have to do with whether a rookie Qb is more or less appropriately viewed as having led his team to a win or loss than non-rookie? It is a non sequitur.
The difference is all the months and years Clemens has had over the past three off-seasons to be in the same offense, learn the ins and outs of it and translate that to the field. It's like asking a freshman and a senior to find their way around campus, who has the advantage? Sanchez by now has had more snaps in games, but he doesn't have the background of familiarity to help with split-second decisions that Clemens has, or should have.
I'd argue that you created the non sequitur. It was your banal attempt at making a comparison, not mine. Your words: "So, with the leading D in the league and the leading rushing game, how may wins did Sanchez "lead" the team to?" Again I'd say Clemens did not manage the win. He managed not to lose, which is NOT the same thing. The defense "led" the team to the win. Frankly, in that particular game, Kellen Clemens couldn't hit a bear in the ass with a banjo! But I digress..
fine fine. Clemens is not as good as Sanchez.....he never was....and never will be. The point is most likely moot, because god willing...Clemens won't be on this roster next year anyway. Hasn't this been beaten to death already?
Sigh. There are two different parts of this discussion going on here. My more recent point was that whether a person is a rookie or not has nothing to do with whether it is appropriate to say a Qb led a team to victory. You refer to what is obviously a different question, or it should be obvious. I disagree with you only insofar as certain people here who show an increasingly alarming tendency to look at the question with homeristic tendencies (or as you might recall the subject, homeristic regarding the player, not the team) go on to use different standards for judging the performance of different players. At least for now I am not bothering to address or clarify this point. Not that I don't think it worth making, but that I was talking about something else. Do you follow that?
there's no homerism involved at all.....Sanchez is the better player.....he won the job in TC...something Clemens failed at 4 bloody times. Clemens didn't lead the Jets to a victory....he didn't make any mistakes. I guarantee you that Clemens didn't make a single play that would constitute a football fan to say "Man, that guy just made the play that iced this game for his team."...Clemens was a total non-factor. I've said this already in another thread....Clemens was excellent in protecting the football...but that's it. He did nothing else other than miss wide open receivers and increase Feely's workload in the FG game.
Somehow in BB's mind any time you point out a better QB on the roster than Clemens it means you're a "homer" for that guy, apparently. It was the same way with Pennington, he was constantly on here attacking anyone and everyone who supported Chad, now it's Sanchez, always with the notion that Clemens is/was somehow getting the short end of the stick. Clemens has shown he can make a play here and there but he's not consistent and he doesn't finish drives in the red zone. I don't see how pointing that out makes us "homers" for Chad or Sanchez when we're all rooting for the same guys on the same team.
Clemens is terrible he has had his chance. Basic problem he is scared to death out there and under happy feet in dictionary it says see Kellen Clemens. There is no chance he will be back with Jets next year. Has it already been suggested that Chad will be back to back up and teach Sanchez
That's a red herring and you know it. Give me a single quote where I have said Clemens is better than Sanchez. You can't, so stop making it up. Ftr I never said Clemens was better than Chad, either. I merely made the point it was time to move on from Chad, who had shown he was not going to succeed against better D's. At the time I thought it was worth seeing what Clemens had, and it was Chad Fans such as yourself who appeared disinclined to see whether improving who was Qb for the Jets by moving on from Chad was possible. I was quite happy when the Jets got Favre. Of course that didn't turn out well except for one singular benefit, and that was the Jets got rid of Chad. This was always the mantra of Chad Fans such as yourself - the interest in moving on was based on a CONCLUSION that Clemens was better than Chad. It was no such thing. It was a willingness not shared by you to conclude that Chad was not the answer. As for Sanchez the situation is entirely different, although your lumping the two situations together seems to indicate you are increasingly comfortable with adopting the same uncritical and homeristic attitude toward Sanchez that you had about Chad. Ftr I don't think Clemens is better than Sanchez. But I don't think Sanchez is above criticism, either. And I am increasingly uncomfortable with those who in effect think he is. Now go ahead and mischaracterize my position if that's the only way you can attack it. But I will call you on it.
This is where you and I don't see "eye-to-eye".....this year is a learning year for Sanchez.....I don't think he deserves to be run through the ringer by the media and by impatient fans. Your line of thinking dictates that he should walk out and play like Montana in his first year.....cut the kid some slack. Wait till year 2 or 3 before you start criticizing every little nuance about him. Now having said all that...i think he's done well thus far....he's had some slip ups....but that's part and parcel at this stage of his development....he's only had 1 year of starting at college....unlike Matt Ryan for instance...who started 4 years in college. You're a smart guy, BB....how are you having such a hard time with this?
You have even admitted you hate Clemens and are unreasonable in doing so. That others do not share your blind hatred does not make them at the opposite end of the spectrum. There is plenty of room for more reasoned assessment. And of course you completely missed the point, because you would rather attack me for not sharing your hatred and for calling you on it, that whether a Qb is a rookie has nothing to do with assessing how or whether he "led" a team to a win or a loss.
