Maybe he moves into the top 15. Aging stars like jeter, Pettitte, Mariano, Bernie, Posada, Mussina,... The example is a perfect one. The Yanks weren't good as the previous few years(specificall '96, '98-'99) just like Dallas '95 wasn't as good as '92 or '93. Brady had alot more time? did you see that SB? QBs rarely face that kind of rpessure especially in a SB and he withstood it and led his team on the go ahead drive late in the SB. I kind of agree w/ you on SL vs. GB though. Warner had amazing talent around him but I am convinced w/ him after he did it in Ari as well. I don't care waht talent he had, that is talent Manning has had his entire career and he only has 1 SB app. I would MUCH rather see Peyton manning in postseason than Kurt Warner if they were playing the Jets.
Part of Peyton Manning's problem has been having Brady and the Pats in the way every year, like Ewing with Jordan.
The problem w/ that is, much like Ewing w/ Jordan's Bulls, he's had plenty of chances not facing the Pats. He's only lost to NE twice- his other losses: vs. Ten at Mia at NYJ vs. Pitt vs. SD at SD
No. Aging stars that were on their way out or already out like O'Neil, Martinez, Brosius, Wells, Cone. Dallas was just as good as their 92 / 93 teams. But since you keep saying they weren't please start providing specifics. Was it their running game? Passing game? Defense? Special Teams? What area did they decline at and why. A lot more time left on the game clock. Manning has only one Super Bowl partly because he's struggled, but also because he ran into Patriots TEAMS that were better than his Colts teams. And he played well in the Chargers games. The Chargers team played very well against the Colts though. Warner has tremendous talent to work with in Arizona as well, and their defense got hot at the right time. Don't get me wrong though, Warner is great too.
Yeah, my example is overly simplified, but I think Manning's best chances coincided with Brady's, as did Ewing's with Jordan. Same for the Jets, too, in this decade. We've had some good teams, especially in the Herm/Chad/Curtis Martin years early this decade, even Vinny's last full year as starter, 2001, but they had a better team in our division, which makes it a lot herder to advance.
This shows me you just looked at the boxscores. His 2 critical INts cost them at least 6 pts in 2007 and they lost by 4 and he did nothing outside of 1 play last year.
Daryl Johnston, Mark Tuniei, Jay Novacek, Charles haley. They had enough guys at or near the ends of their careers. he did have more time left on the game clock but Favre still had plenty of time and had a shorter field to work w/. He lost to the Pats TWICE. That excuse doesn't fly. It definitely hurt us b/c insetad of winning divisions and possibly getting a 2 seed we had to play in the WC rd on the road 3 of the 4 times.
Haven't you repeatedly excused the Jets'/Pennington's early Playoff exits because of having to face the Pats either in the regular and/or Post-season? How come the excuse flies in that situation?
From my perspective it's the same idea. It's not a knock against Manning or Pennington, the simple point that it's harder for a TEAM to advance when there is a better TEAM in their division/conference over a period of years. Even if you have a great player or QB, soemtimes there are factors he can't control. As I mentioned earlier, like the list of great 90s NBA players who never won a title because Jordan's Bulls won six--Ewing, Barkley, Malone and Stockton, Mullen, etc. For the Jets it's worse being in the same division because, as junc mentioned, it means being a Wild Card and opening on the road. The one time we won the division with Pennington and opened at home we won 41-0 over Manning's Colts. It helps.
So you are saying Chad Pennington is on the levek of Peyton manning and Brett Favre? and those QBs play in the same div as the Pats? Manning played in the same div as Brady for one year and his team finished in 4th place so he never blocked them as a div rival.
I completely agree with what you've stated. But you can't say (as I believe Junc has been saying): Pennington's failures are acceptable because of the Pats while Peyton's failures against the Pats is an excuse that "just doesn't fly." That seems a bit hypocritical to me. No?
While we play the Pats twice a year as a result of being in the AFCE, don't forget that the Colts and Pats play almost every year during the reg. season, and then are usually on a collision course in the Playoffs.
I guess it depends what case you're trying to make. People put Manning on the level with Brady, in the Hall of Fame, etc, that's a different standard than Pennington has ever been discussed with--at least by rational human beings. The knock on Chad was that he couldn't win in the playoffs, the counter is that he did win a couple of times, and except for the first time we always had to travel to a division champion's place to open the first round. It's a lot harder to reach the Super Bowl that way than getting a bye or even opening the first round at home against a five or six seed. The Colts are in a different division so they could at least get a home game before running into the Pats, we can't.
The Packers of 1996 were better IMO than those Rams teams. The 1997 team wasn't nearly as good though. No Sean Jones at DE. No Wayne Simmons (traded) at LB. Craig Newsome and George Koonce were also out for most of 1997 due to knee injuries. Their replacements simply weren't as good. No Desmond Howard returning kicks, and no Keith Jackson (retired) which enabled GB to kill teams with the double TE set. Still a very good team, but defensively they were exposed on a number of occasions that year.
Did he unretire? We got him in 1999 so he must have come back. He didn't do much for us but he was here.
Not to veer from the current debate, but I also wanted to mention... Anyone who's expecting a vintage Favre collapse due to playing in late/post-season inclement weather, I wouldn't count on it: Minny - Dome New Orleans - Dome Arizona - (Dome?) Good weather. Dallas - retractable roof. All the powerhouse Playoff bound NFC teams this year play in stadiums where weather is irrelevant.
