So, let's say we have two players, both RBs from BCS conference schools ranked in the Top 25. The first has rushed for 1148 yards and 8 TDs including 1 multi-TD rushing game. He has rushed for 100 yards in 5 of his 9 games, and has 1 200 yard rushing performance. The second has rushed for 1217 yards and 16 TDs including 6 multi-TD rushing games. He has rushed for 100 yards in 7 of his 9 games, and has 2 200 yard rushing performances. Which one would you expect to be leading the Heisman race? If you answered "the guy from the better overall team", you'd be right. Mark Ingram leads the Heisman race by all expert accounts, while Toby Gerhart is barely a blip on the radar. Fuck you, Heisman. I even read today on ESPN the opinion that "Mark Ingram is the best runner after contact in the nation". Apparently, Mark Schlabach has never seen the Beast carry 6 defenders for an extra 3 yards. Hell, even CJ fucking Spiller is viewed as a more solid Heisman candidate. For what? 1073 rushing/receiving yards and 8 TDs? 12 TDs if you count his returns...still short of Gerhart. More bullshit.
Oh, and before Mr. E jumps in...yes, I think Ryan Matthews should be up there too, regardless of conference.
Here's my top five: 1. Ryan Mathews - Fresno State (nation's leading rusher) 2. Toby Gerhart - Stanford (carries his team each and every week) 3. CJ Spiller - Clemson (most versatile player in college football) 4. Tim Tebow - Florida (Never gives up, always wins. Best QUARTERBACK in college football) 5. Jimmy Clausen - Notre Dame (Best PASSER in college football) I see why CJ Spiller is getting so much hype. He actually deserves to be a Heisman finalist. CJ is Clemson's entire team...and he can score from anywhere on the field. However, it does piss me off that guys like Gerhart and Mathews aren't getting any type of recognition at all. It's bullshit.
Yeah, I get that the triple threat factor is carrying Spiller. It just pisses me off that Ingram is leading in most expert polls. If Matthews and Gerhart stay strong through the end of the season, I can see one of them winning Offensive Player of the Year and the Heisman STILL going to Ingram. I hate that.
The Heisman is a stupid popularity contest. That said, I do think that there's a case to be made for Ingram even if his numbers aren't quite there with Gerhart or Mathews'. Running in the SEC is no picnic.
Ndamukong Suh is the best player in college football and probably won't get any votes because of the position he plays. I stopped paying attention to the Heisman a long time ago, it's a joke of an award.
It's not a joke, there's just a lot of politics involves and it shouldn't be that way. Suh is the best defensive lineman in college football, but he's definitely not the best player. CJ Spiller wins games for Clemson. Ryan Mathews wins games for Fresno. Toby Gerhart wins games for Stanford King Kong Suh is the best player on an awesome defense, but he's not a game changer, so he won't get considered for the award. The same goes for Terrence Cody.
Well, only if you have to play Alabama. Their 68.2 YPG against is one of the best in the country. If we take Alabama out of the SEC (since Ingram won't run against his own team), and Stanford out of the Pac 10, then SEC teams surrender an average of 142.6 YPG, while Pac 10 teams surrender 132.4. That includes all of those soft non-conference games that the SEC plays, too. I'm not suggesting that the Pac 10 plays better defense, since that would be ludicrous. Everyone knows the passing defenses in the SEC are the best in the country year in and year out. I'm just suggesting that perhaps running in the SEC isn't more impressive than running in the Pac 10. EDIT: As far as scoring is concerned, the Pac 10 teams average 12.2 rushing TDs on the season. 10.5 for the SEC. A bit more scoring, but again, that includes non-conference and is FAR from enough to account for Gerhart scoring twice as many rushing TDs as Ingram.
The PAC-10 is nowhere near as tough to run in as the SEC is. The defenses in the PAC-10 are notoriously soft and the games usually end up like 51-42 (see last week's Stanford-Oregon defensive stalemate). Comparing stats between the two leagues is misleading because those stats are based on the soft teams you're playing against(in the PAC-10's case). USC's defense last year was the exception to the rule and they had a sh*tload of first rounders on that D. Also they had Cushing from Bergen Catholic in NJ to bring some East Coast toughness to their D. Again this was the exception from a PAC-10 D and far from the norm. Ingram is my Heisman winner if I'm picking today. Matthews and Gerhart are good but they wouldn't be nearly as productive if they're playing SEC D's week in and out.
This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I compared defensive statistics. If the run defenses were soft, the Pac 10 should be giving up dozens of more yards than the SEC on the ground, and yet they have a lower per game average against. If the offenses were soft, leading to lower YPG averages for the defenses, you wouldn't have those 51 - 42 type games. The Pac 10 traditionally has soft defenses, but this year, their rushing defenses have been solid, despite being in a conference with the likes of Toby Gerhart, Jacquizz Rodgers, and Jahvid Best. You offer nothing in support of your stance but a dismissal of facts. What are you basing your opinion on, then? How about the instance of Tennessee? In Week 2, AT HOME, Tennessee managed 115 yards on the ground against UCLA, a middling Pac 10 team. The next week? 117 yards on the ground AT FLORIDA. In fact, only ONE team in the SEC has managed to hold Tennessee to fewer yards than UCLA, and that was the road game at Alabama, by far the best rush defense in the SEC, if not the nation. The only other comparison, Washington, in its first game with a brand spankin' new head coach, held LSU to fewer yards than it had in its game against Georgia a few weeks later. Did I mention Washington is currently 8th in the Pac 10? Aside from that, the SEC non-conference schedule is largely filled with stats-padding games against lower mid-majors and the occasional FCS team. Would you care to offer anything other than conjecture to support your point? I do appreciate, however, that you just demonstrated why Mark Ingram will likely win the Heisman at this point: hype, more hype, and willful ignorance.
Don't fret too much, Iggy, his World Series ring is going to balance out the hole where his Heisman should be.
Hahaha...it's tough to figure out his future. I'd imagine he declares for the NFL draft this year, but I'd be wary of taking him. Watching him drag 5 or 6 defenders, you'd never imagine that he's been injury plagued while at Stanford. I wouldn't be surprised to see him perpetually hurt in the NFL, but he wasn't taken in the MLB draft this year. Until he commits one way or the other, I have no idea what's in store.
Tonight's performance definitely got him some NFL attention but the only reason that he didn't get drafted is b/c of his football prowess and his willingness to play two sports in college. Once the baseball season rolls aroudn MLB teams will be all over him. I firmly believe that he's going to commit to baseball but if he decides to go for the NFL I will not be dissatisfied. He'll be a phenomenal player in either sport. The CWS is going to be a major deciding factor in his career plans. Either way, we're going to be in a great position to watch a great career.
Heard a discussion on the radio today arguing why Toby Gerhart deserves the Heisman. They started with the obvious stats, then delved a bit deeper. When comparing Gerhart to Ingram, they said the perception is that Ingram has faced better defenses. However, no matter how you break it down (Top 20, 30, 40), Ingram and Gerhart have faced the exact same number of top defenses this season. The bigger picture, however, is HOW Gerhart has achieved his success. There's no doubt that Ingram has been solid running the ball this season. However, a good deal of his success has come out of that Wildcat style formation. He's had plays designed to get him out in space where he can be successful, and has exploited opposing teams' uncertainty and inability to properly gameplan for him. Contrast that with Gerhart. Stanford runs straight power. As Pete Carroll said, everyone knows what Stanford is going to do. Everyone knows EXACTLY where Gerhart is going to run, and they STILL can't stop him. He simply destroys defenders and drags them along for extra yardage. He just plain dominates defenses. The truly impressive aspect, though? Stanford is #2 in the nation in time of possession behind Navy. Why is that impressive? Because that's coupled with the #67 defense in the country. 7 - 3 with a bottom half defense and a gameplan that centers around a single player. Luck's good and shows a ton of promise, but this is Gerhart's team, and he's carrying it. No player has been as dominant as Gerhart this season, but he does attend Stanford. He's at a disadvantage because of the school and the location. Only USC has West Coast Heisman winners, and we all know that. He'll lose, but I don't see anyone more deserving.
It seems I was mistaken about something in my previous post, or rather the broadcasters yesterday were. They mentioned that Gerhart had the same number of games against Top 20, 30, 40 rush defenses, but that's not true. Here's how Gerhart has performed against Top 40 rush defenses: # 15 Oregon State - 96 yards, 2 TDs # 20 Arizona - 123 yards, 2 TDs # 21 Arizona St - 125 yards, 1 TD And how Mark Ingram has performed against Top 40 rush defenses: NO DATA That's right, to date, he hasn't faced a Top 40 run defense. He most certainly will when Alabama gets Florida in the SEC Championship, but he's managed to avoid the only other Top 40 Rush defenses in the SEC: Georgia and his own Alabama D. Remind me again what the argument is for him? Oh right, he plays for a solid team. For the record, even Ryan Matthews has faced a Top 40 Run D in #30 Boise State. His numbers? 234 yards and 3 TDs. It's pretty clear AFAIC who the Top 2 RBs should be in the voting. Of course, we all know it won't work out that way.
Since I started the thread, Gerhart is now acknowledged by many as the #2, which is a tremendous feat for a Stanford player. He needs 100 yards in his last two (Cal, ND) to finish with 10 100 yard rushing performances on the season. If that happens, and Stanford wins both games, it becomes very interesting. It'll likely come down to the SEC Championship. If Ingram can manage 100+ and score a TD or two, he'll easily be hoisting the trophy. At that point, with a solid performance against a Top 10 defense on that stage, he'll deserve it, too.
