Sanchez=Great QB?

i'm not talking about stats just pure physical and how they play the game, i'm not looking at really how many INTs Young/Sanchez threw or any of that nature, just their tendencies, I see a lot of similarities, I kind wish the Jets had a OC that ran a west coast offense I was always a fan

 

The Jets do run a west coast offense. It's just heavily modified and has evolved over the years from Paul Hackett's version to the one Schotty runs right now.

 

Be reading this board you would think Paul Hackett would be loved around here.

 

He ran the most sterile version of the WCO I've ever seen. To give you an idea, Brett Favre and the Packers ran the WCO for a decade and they were never boring and nobody considered them to be running a ball control clock management offense.

Hackett literally squeezed all the fun out of watching the Jets on offense.

Schotty's WCO is more interesting to watch but it's all smoke and mirrors and no power and so it's also unstable as hell. Really there's no way the Jets should have a young QB running that offense. there's too much to think about at the line of scrimmage, when he should just be reading how the defense is lined up instead of moving his guys around, and there's way too much going on after the snap, when he should just have a simple two progression to look at or throw the ball away.

It's fine to be running a symphony orchestra out there when you have a few years in the system but it's horrible at first glance. Schotty's offense is the main reason Clemens failed in my opinion and for the same reasons. Dumb the damn thing down so the young guy can execute it properly and then speed it back up when he has his feet on the ground.

 

That's all you had to say, to make my point valid and clear, it's a shitty version if you ask me, innovation doesn't always prove to be effective, Favre and Young's version of the WCO was extremely effective there was always potential to make a play downfield, the smoke and mirrors bullshit gets old after a while if you ask me

 

The one knock on Romo is his inability to perform in the playoffs. Otherwise he's shown in the past to be a pretty good QB (having a rough year so far tho)

 

I agree, it isn't that damn hard to look through a few posts before posting something that 12 million people have already said. I'm an idiot and I can avoid it. Its one thing if its in the 12th page of a 25 page thread, with one mention. I guess everyone feels every thought they have requires its own thread. "Look at me!!! I'm special!!!"

 

What's up with people and the sanchez comparision to Peyton. You think the bears didn't do the same thing with grossman and manning, think Baltimore didn't do the same thing with Boller saying "even Peyton had a bad rookie year" blah blah blah. Nobody knows what sanchez future holds. with good coaching and play calling he can great, with bad playcalling and coaching he might a bust (ask Alex Smith).

 

The WCO get heavily modified wherever it's used. It's the basic template for a Pro style offense at this point and so it's the scratchboard that almost every offensive coordinator starts with as he is devising his personal scheme.

In Green Bay the WCO mixes in a heavy power rushing attack. In San Francisco they emphasized the screens to spread the defense out and let them run between the tackles without over-committing there.

The problem with Schotty's WCO is that it has no good plan mixed in to run between the tackles successfully. He loves the quick screen left to a WR, away from the strong side, so much that teams now routinely jump that play. they jumped it on Chad. They jumped it on Clemens and they jump it now on Sanchez. That makes the play a failure of the scheme, not of any individual QB. Obviously Sanchez is a rookie and could be giving it away more than his predecessors but that play got jumped a lot before he took over. That play was the reason the Jets lost to the Pats in the playoffs in 2006. The Jets should absolutely scrap that play and not run it again this year. It's a pick 6 waiting to happen, and it will if they keep running it.

Basically Schotty's WCO requires a very strong-armed QB throwing deep down the field consistently (Brett Favre) to work. That's probably why he took the chances he took on Sunday. He misunderstood what happened with Sanchez in Miami and thought that he could get that kind of performance out of him on demand, even though Sanchez really has not put the landing gear down yet and gotten comfortable. If Sanchez can't make those throws consistently in bad weather, as 95% of all QB's cannot, then the Jets are going to get stacked up at the line of scrimmage because Schotty's offense doesn't scare anybody enough to not put 8 men in the box as the default.

Really it's the scheme that is at fault. It destroyed Chad Pennington, and then it destroyed Kellen Clemens and now it's working on Sanchez. The Jets need to junk the scheme and develop the young QB.

BTW, to make this clearer: 4 QB's have thrown 59 TD passes and 68 INT's using this scheme since 2006. The range of people who have had issues with it go from Old man Favre to wet behind the ears Sanchez. Both young QB's introduced to the scheme have had real INT problems as a result. Chad Pennington threw 27 TD's and 25 INT's using the scheme in his two seasons running it. That alone should tell us there is a problem in the way it is setup. Chad never throws that many INT's in normal situations, he does that stuff under heavy pressure from good defenses.

 

That's something we can both agree on, so from here we can't have Shotty as the OC, if we were to fire him, we'll potentially have Sanchez regress as opposing to progress, what made Peyton and all those other great QBs so successful was that they had a great OC that had a great scheme, Tom Moore and Peyton have been together since he was drafted, I believe Josh McDaniels was around also when Brady was drafted, I always thought Shotty wasn't that GOOD of a OC, he's very innovative and has decent ideas but it doesn't translate onto the football field, he in a sense is predictable people have known how to stop the Jets passing attack for a while now there was never any consistency so what do we do? I always thought that if Norv Turner gets fired we bring him in, but that's a huge risk and it probably won't work out, he's a great offensive mind

 

Charlie Weis was the OC in New England who worked with Brady at the start.

I don't think they need to fire Schotty. I think they need to make him sit down with his results and figure out why his QB's are so interception prone. TD passes outnumber INT's these days by 3-2 across the NFL. Why are the Jets consistently throwing more INT's than TD's in that context?

This is not a case of a few guys skewing the results. Chad Pennington is one of the most anal-retentive non-INT throwing QB's in history. He really hates throwing INT's. his "good" season under Schotty was 17 TD's and 16 INT's, a number that he has never approached anywhere else in a full season. His second season was 10 TD's and 9 INT's. That is the system throwing INT's not Chad Pennington. Brett Favre has thrown a few doozies in his career and he's not the most careful guy with the ball. Between Minnesota and Green Bay, sandwiching the Jets season, he has thrown 40 TD's and 17 INT's. He went 22-22 with the Jets. Not necessarily the system but boy you have to wonder. Clemens and Sanchez, both young guys with little experience have now thrown 10 TD's and 20 INT's trying to master the system. It's the SYSTEM.

 

Great post... #'s like that get OC's fired... not sat down.

 

My main worry with Sanchez is whats he doing in New York if he can't play in the wind and rain. Perhaps Woody can put the PSL's up and put a roof on the new stadium to help him out!!!

 

Honestly that's the least of our problems, Manning isn't really good in the wind and rain either well at first, and honestly fuck PSLs, if were trying to win games, Shotty isn't the answer, maybe he lacks common sense, or maybe he's in it for himself to look good not the team, but so far and from the previous poster (good post btw on TD-INT ratios for his tenure) that man will never get a gig, I feel that were going to destroy Sanchez before we even see him at his best, if the system fails were ruining Sanchez and his ability to progress, and with the investment we have on him that's BAD NEWS, if Rex is smart and wants to save his ass, i'd get rid of Shotty if he continues his strange playcalling

 

That's a very interesting take Br4dw4y5ux, it makes a lot of sense.

 

Its very interesting , but does it tell the whole story.

Chad playing injured , teams stacking the box
Our horrible oline when Kendall left
Favre being the gunslinger

Plus over that time other than 2006 , when did Shotty really get to run his offense. I'll contend 2006 Mangini's first and this year are it.

In 2007 Mangini pulled the reigns in when Chad went down and Clemens was inserted. In 2008 this offense was all about what Favre was comfortable with and what he wanted to run.

So if you want project those numbers on a Mangini led offense , I'll buy it , but I'll argue its not a true indicator of Shotty's offense.

 

All this talk about Mangini controlling what Schotty did is pure speculation. If you look at the play calling from last year to this year you still see the same inconsistency and WTF moments. I don't buy it. Not yet anyway.

Blame Mangini all you want. We still saw a Rookie QB throw 30 times in a wet, windy game Sunday when we were running the ball at will. Seems like the same bullshit to me.

 

Actually, I think Mangini would have run it all day long . He did similiarly in the 6-3 win over Buffalo two weeks ago - passing only 19 times. Last year was a complete anomaly due to Favre , that offense was not Mangini's and certainly not Shotty's it was ol #4 running the show because he had no intent of learning the Jets palybook.

2007 Shotty was reigned in because Chad was injured and Clemens was playing behind a swinging gate oline.

All, I'm saying is this year is the true barometer of Shotty's O. Rex has stated he will let Brian call the games. I believe the offensive gameplan for Sunday was squarely on Shotty's shoulders .

 

It's foolish to compare stats in evaluating a QB. From a mental standpoint pocket presence, ability to move the team and decision making is key. Sanchez is playing on a team that is not short on talent. At this point, he only needs to manage the game not be relied on to win it.