Steve..I totally agree with this. I just think the color of his skin didnt play a part on why tbj wanted him on this team. He thinks he earned it...many others think he didn't because of various reasons. I tend to agree with him not really bringing much to the table over a 16 game season. My reason for posting in this thread is because some were making statements on why he shouldn't make the roster. All tbj was pointing out is in his opinion...the coach looks like a bit of a hypocrite when a no name little guy puts up great numbers and is shown the door. Both sides are correct. Those that say his numbers mean shit when it comes to bringing something to the table during the regular season..I tend to agree with that. I also completely understand where tbj is coming from. Tough call and I'm sure Rex would have preferred rewarding the guy a spot...just didn't work out with the 3 other rb's on the roster.
I hear you IR. As I mentioned before....this kid was a tough fit for this team no matter what he did in the 4 preseason games. He would be a tough fit for any team. Still, like you mentioned, it was a breath of fresh air watching this kid bust his ass in a big mans game and not get rewarded for it.
i didnt really see it that way. if that is what he was trying to say i can understand his point. its tough when someone preaches one thing and then does another. however these are tough decisions, i am very confident rex would have probably loved to keep a guy who he talked highly about all fall. i am sure the op was just frustrated with his first number of posts. i was probably a little frustrated when making my post. and not thinking about what you are saying.
I totally agree...it was a real tough decision. You always want to be part of a feel good story..and the kid showed a lot of heart..and some talent to boot. But I agree with you. Every new coach gives the same speech. Brand new slate...doesnt care about the dollar amount next to your name but cares about the effort..blah blah. Rex was in a tough position. He has one guy that lead the NFL in rushing..he has another guy that he guarantees will get many more touches this year in Washington..and the rookie who had a great camp and has shown if he can stay healthy, he is not only a north south runner..but tough to bring down. Then there is DW. Odd man out. TBJ's other point is about depth..which is an extremely valid point too. Its a tough position to have a guy like DW on your roster as a serious depth option.
Geeze... I've been accused of wanting players to get hurt, and now this garbage. Honestly, this is not very different from when Leon was drafted. I liked him right away too, although tons of people on this board at the time did not. Leon had an advantage... he was drafted, so Mangini had a vested interest in developing him. One of the reasons I immedaitely liked Leon was because of his character. Just a smallish, fast hard working guy who beat the odds. No one played the race card then... why now? Such pure stupidity. I also was on the Clowney bandwagon very early. Not so much from what he did in the 2007 preseason, but how poorly Mangini treated him, all the while Clowney is raising his nephew and basically saving that kid from a very bad situation. It's about character. I like players with good character, I root for them. I look for character from coaches too. Mean what you say, say what you mean. Ryan failed to live up to his words IMO when it comes to Woodhead. Ryan also said he would not put numbers limits on any given position when he made cuts. He would keep the best players, the best athletes, the hardest workers. Tell me how O'Connell is better than Woodhead on any one of those counts. Good thing O'Connell is white, or I'd be called a racist I suppose. This is the sort of shit that goes on here that makes me take extended hiatus' from this place. I've been accused of hoping players get injured, called an asshole, and now a racist. All in this one thread. Read what the F I type, and stop trying to find some ulterior motive. There isn't any ulterior motive. I'm a passionate Jets fan, and I hate the Mark G's and Meshawns, I love the good kids, Leon, Clowney, Woodhead, Chrebet. I also happen to like TJ a lot... he isn't happy with his contract, but he goes out on the field and leaves it all out there anyway. It's just that simple. Some knuckleheads here just don't get it.
Leon isn't a good comparison. He was drafted as the future of this team at RB. Despite the size difference, Greene would be a much more apt comparison to Leon in 2006. I just have to ask you to clarify. You were on the Clowney bandwagon because he was poorly treated by the coach? Would you prefer to win or have a bunch of character guys on the team? I'm not saying it's necessarily either/or, but I'd much rather win than have a team of scrubs with good character. Again, please provide the quotes you're referring to. I'm not going to disagree with anything you've said here, nor am I going to suggest that you shouldn't root for the good guys. I like Woodhead, and I hope he does well. I'm just saying that you overvalue him when it comes to this team. When it comes down to the character guy or the guy who helps this team win, I would hope the team goes with the position of need. Besides, it looks like Woodhead has cleared waivers and is heading back to the PS. Don't you think that perhaps you're overstating his value if 31 other teams all took a pass?
I really think Woodhead has caused a pretty big rift in Jets fandom this year. There are two completely different views on the situation, and it's like politics. Either you're on one side or the other. Woodhead did technically make the team, as Ryan promised. He was cut a day later, but he made it through the first cut, and had more important players not appeared on the cut list, he'd probably be here now. Unfortunately for Woodhead, he falls behind the guys that appeared, at least to this organization. (Has he been signed by anyone else yet?) I value some character, but not to the same extreme as you TBJ. If I could go back and choose between Keyshawn and Chrebet now, I'd send the candle packing. If I can have both talent and character, I'll gladly take the mix. However, if I have to choose between them, I'm taking talent, every time.
Leon was drafted to be the future RB? Why then did the Jets trade for TJ 2 years ago? Leon WAS a long shot. He was too small, had an injury history, and that pick was roundly criticized in this forum at the time. You weren't here, so how can you comment on that? I was on the Clowney bandwagon somewhat because of what he did in the 2007 preseason, also from what some GB fans told me about him, and then had a hard time understanding why he was given no playing time once he was healthy from the injury last year. He looked like the deep threat we lacked. Then the story about his nephew came out. Made me like Clowney more. Then after Mangini got fired, there were reports that the rest of the CS did not understand why Mangini did not give him the opportunity to play. As far as Ryan's comments about keeping the hardest working, best players, and how he had no position related quotas or spots reserved by position was in one of his press conferences. I'm not about to go back and spend 3 hours finding which one it was in.... either you take my word on it, or you don't. I don't give a shit either way. Greene was what, one of the top 5 or 6 RB's in this last draft? Leon was buried in terms of his projected draft round... some even predicted he would not get drafted at all. Few pundits gave him any shot, other than MAYBE being a return man. No way was he considered the RB of the future when he was drafted... no way. I don't want a team of scrubs. Did I say that? Show me where. Yes, I do think that team chemistry, character and cohesiveness is under valued in the NFL. Some players have that intangable. They don't grow on trees in this league. More players like Cotchery and Wesley Walker, fewer Meshawns. I did not, and don't want B Marshall here. Didn't want any part of TO either. I think players like that have value beyond their on field contributions, and bad character guys bring down team chemistry. Dallas got rid of their best on field playmaker for this very reason. Intangables. That doesn't mean I want a roster full of high character guys who can't play in the NFL. It means I put a higher value on players like that, those who outperform guys with more talent. Guys like Wes Welker. In that respect, I'll take Woodhead over an O'Connell any day of the week. I've had enough of the trash NE throws to the curb.
I didn't comment on the response of the forum. I commented on the front office. I wasn't aware that the fan reaction dictated our draft every year. The general public very well could have considered Leon a long shot, and the front office could have considered him a future answer at RB. We traded for TJ because we needed a big body at the position as well while Leon developed. He's done that well. I read an article that said that Danny Woodhead killed a baby in a drunk driving accident. I don't have the time to find it, though. Guess you'll just have to take my word on it. Ohhh, so it's not the fans, it's the pundits who dictate draft strategy. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm still not sure how Woodhead fits in with the other players you mentioned. If you're arguing that he has outperformed guys with more talent, you're essentially saying he has less talent than 2nd and 3rd stringers. If that's true, I certainly don't want him anywhere but the practice squad. Before that, I'd have loved to have him on the active roster if we could settle on our DBs. You're starting to change my mind about him. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who truly wanted O'Connell on this team, or would prefer a 4th QB over having Woodhead on the active roster. Preaching to the choir and whatnot.
I have to say, your general approach is confrontational, as opposed to entertaining an open discussion. Did I say that fans dictate draft strategies? What I said was that Leon was a dark horse to even get drafted by the pundits, and fans reacted to that pick with some dismay. When you want to discuss, I'll be here. If you want to bait with every post you type, I have little time or inclination to respond any further. Now that I've cleared THAT up..... since you have some trouble with clarity...
You're right, I'm becoming confrontational. You're calling out our coach without any actual proof behind your accusations. I've asked you numerous times to post evidence of his lies with regard to Woodhead, and you refuse to do so. How can I have an open discussion with that? Your evidence on Leon had nothing to do with what I pointed out, which was that Leon was taken in a very different position than Woodhead. Leon was drafted at a time when Curtis Martin was on his way out and we had picked up a couple of band aids to ease the transition. I don't care what the fans and pundits said about him, our front office was obviously drafting a RB for the future of the position. You don't think that's more comparable to Greene than to Woodhead? Woodhead was a UDFA. That's where you hope to pick up a miracle, not where you place your hopes for the future. You responded with stories about people unaffiliated with the Jets organization not liking the pick? How was that openly discussing the matter at hand? It was simply trying to change the basis of the conversation. Why not address what I said?
I seem to remember this board being pretty darn excited about drafting Leon Washington. Not quite sure many saw him as the future of the RB position but most as I remember were excited about his playmaking potential.
I do not accept homework assignments from posters. Either you listen to Ryan's press conferences and remember what he said, or you don't. You want to know what Ryan says, then listen to him. I am not going to give any synopsis of his pressers with links. Everything that I have said about Ryan's comments can be found at the Jets' site and are factual. I watch every PC twice. I know what he says. You sound like you had some inside info on the entire LW pick, and exactly what the FO had in mind. Your contacts are better than mine. Unless you are guessing, which is the likely scenario. Care to post any links to support your position on the Leon pick? Some quotes from Mangini or from the FO? He was drafted to be the future RB? There WAS serious dissention on this board about Leon when he was drafted, and for cryin out loud, that is just fact. That does NOT mean I think that fan reaction runs how the Jets draft... geeze, the jumps people make in this thread are ludicrous. There was a poster here back then.... the guy claimed he knew Leon (and no one on this board excepting Jabba knew squat about him) and that poster went to bat for Washington. The posters here learned a lot about Leon from that guy, and warmed up to the pick. But the initial reaction was NOT positive. No, I'm not going to search for that guys posts... in fact they are likely irretretievable, there has been at least one board crash here since then, and those posts are gone. Like I said.... either believe what I say or don't. I don't give a shit either way. But.... if you want me to find Ryan's comments, I will, if you find anything at all with links to support your "Leon was a future feature RB pick". Or what that just opinion based on no factaul evidence?
^ Let me help you out. When asked about Woodhead: As I've been saying all along, Woodhead got cut because the FO felt someone else fit the roster better. Ryan was VERY up front about that possibility. You call him a liar, and yet he was incredibly honest about Woodhead's position on the roster.
I presented you with evidence. We were in a very different position when we drafted Washington than we were when we signed Woodhead. The actions of our front office speak for themselves. With an aging Curtis Martin as the only legitimate back on the roster, they picked up Kevan Barlow as a band aid and waited until the 4th round to draft a RB. That doesn't signify to you that they viewed him as a contributor at the position? How can you argue that the situation isn't more analogous to the pick of Greene than the signing of Woodhead? I have no interest in seeing the posts from someone on this board in response to the pick 3 years ago. Fan response is entirely irrelevant to my point unless you're arguing that the fans dictate draft strategy, and you very clearly stated that you're not. I'm not sure why you keep going back to the board response. They didn't make the pick, so I'm not sure why it matters whether they approved of it.
Another stupid jump. Show me where I called Ryan a "liar"? What I said was that he did not stand behind his words. Herm was a liar. Mangini did not practice what he preached. In this instance, I feel Ryan failed to live up to his statements, but that does not make him lair, nor did I call him one. A credibilty issue, yes, a liar, no. Stop making shit up already just to make my opinion look like something it isn't, in the self interest of "winning" a debate. Show me your links to how the FO made Leon the "future RB pick"..... as I noticed you ignored that.... LOL.
On whether Woodhead deserved to make the team immediately following the Eagles game: Again, he played his ass off, deserves a shot, but the FO didn't feel the numbers worked when they saw who was available the next day. How does this make Rex dishonest?
