The Ryan/Flacco effect: real or real bad for young QBs?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by GreenMachine, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. GreenMachine

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    Just posting this crap for the one line of stupidity..

     
  2. twown

    twown Well-Known Member

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    i like how he refers to tom brady's marriage as "hot."

    brady may be hot. gisele is definitely hot. but how can a f*%king marriage be hot? nothing against marriage, but it's not hot. ever. it's the least hot thing in existence. glaciers are hotter than marriage. goofball.
     
  3. JetsFan

    JetsFan Well-Known Member

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    Flacco has 14 TD to 12 Int last year. If you ask me that isn't great. I would rather have Favre's deep threat and experience with 22 TD & 22 Int.

    Their defense is the winning factor and hopefully ours will be too, but I will take time for them to gell.

    I have always believed to start the young guy rather than have them sit on the bench behind a guy that can't get it done.

    In Roger's case up in GB he was able to sit behind a HOFer, same can be said about Miami and sitting behind Chad who is a smart QB just not a strong one.

    In most cases you draft a guy because you have no option and Clemens was no option.

    Sanchez will learn more on the field than sitting behind a hack.
     
  4. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

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    This guy misses the whole point. If a team drafts a QB and still has a good QB on the team the rookie will not start. He will sit for a couple of years. SF used to do it all the time. What Atlanta, Baltimore and now the Jets are doing is totally different. The Falcons and Ravens were bad teams with bad QBs. The Jets had no QB at all after Favre left. It was the same with Manning, Aikman, Montana and others who all started as rookies with bad teams.

    Nothing has changed but these shills just like to stir the pot.
     
  5. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    Put favre on Baltimore last year and I'm not sure they make the playoffs. A D like that just needs a QB to limit mistakes and Favre is all about forcing things and making mistakes. yes he'll hit a HR now and then but he'll have just as many bad TOs.

    I don't think it's fair to expect Sanchez to get it as a rookie, I think it can happen but it's not fair to expect it and if Sanchez and Stafford have success then I can't imagine the pressure that will be on the next crop.
     
  6. JCotchrocket

    JCotchrocket Active Member

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    Well said, Ledhead.
     
  7. plinko

    plinko Absolute Ruler

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    The only thing I will mention is, as strong as we believe are line is, we were utterly manhandled by the ravens front 7 WITHOUT Terrell Suggs. Yes they have a great front seven, but you don't get manhandle like that if you have a decent line. I think last year's weak schedule has us overrating the offensive trench.
     
  8. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    Actually we ran the ball down Bal's throats, we were manhandled protecting the passer as bal was blitzing all night but had it been a reg season game we aren't throwing as much and not as many risky throws. Let's also not forget that Mangold and Faneca were seeing their first action and woody was out.
     
  9. plinko

    plinko Absolute Ruler

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    They threw all the time and we didn't throw much at all. We played vanilla, they played different. Still yes, we ran the ball very well against them. Still, our pass protection blows...it is going to be a long as year, if it doesn't get better.
     
  10. TheCoolerGlennFoley

    TheCoolerGlennFoley Well-Known Member

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    What sealed the deal for me was a quote by Peyton Manning. He was pretty bad his rookie year but said something along the lines of "I'd never have been as good my 2nd year if I didn't start my 1st". The Jets have the type of team for a rookie QB to do well and even if he's more Roethlisberger his rookie year than Matt Ryan we have a chance to win 8+.
     
  11. Coach K

    Coach K New Member

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    Flacco is the epitome of above average and nothing more. Matt Ryan I knew hed be special just from seeing him at BC. I was wrong about Vince Young (barring a complete turnaround) and right about Ryan.

    Is it me or do people forget nobody ran the ball more last year than the Ravens. Flacco has a great arm and the ability to never try to do too much. His best asset just might be how simple the passing offense is there. and his ability to know when to throw and when to throw it away. hes always throwing downfield on the occasional toss up or on a short route where his throwing power gets the ball there quick.

    hes also mobile which helps. that and having the stable of RB's the ravens do and one of the best scoring defenses ever.

    Matt Ryan, now hes legitimately awesome. thats my opinion and ill stick to it. of course having Michael Turner to keep a defense on its toes makes any QB's job easier. but this guy actually MADE plays with his arm, he didnt just simply keep the team afloat by not fucking up (ie. Flacco)

    I expect a real rough road for Sanchez and mixed feelings for anyone who thinks Sanchez is either going to look amazing or eat shit for 16 weeks. the schedule is tough, the division is tough, and if we see any injuries at OL or RB the season could be even tougher.

    the key to Sanchez' success will ultimately be the defense. the last thing I want to see is Sanchez trying to make comebacks if we fall behind 17 points thats when people try to make too much of nothing and start turning the ball over. also he will make mistakes and the only thing that nullifies this is either consistency from the running game (no fumbles. and good YPC throughout the year). and FORCING TURNOVERS ON DEFENSE.

    alot of shit needs to work itself out. all we can do is sit back and watch.
     
  12. TheCoolerGlennFoley

    TheCoolerGlennFoley Well-Known Member

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    So you're criticizing Flacco by saying he has a great arm, is very mobile and makes good decisions?
     
  13. Coach K

    Coach K New Member

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    i realize how stupid that sounds. im saying that people speak as if Flacco was the reason the Ravens saw success last year. I'm saying Flacco is good, but not great. Not comparable to Ryan at least. I'm saying Flaccos best quality was not trying to do TOO MUCH. and that makes him a perfect fit in BAL.

    but im also saying take the Falcons and the Ravens out of the picture and Matt Ryan is better than Joe Flacco. thats what im really saying.

    i guess i went about it in a convoluted way lol. and then i went on to explain what I think lead to their success. mostly obvious points but sometimes the truth is.

    the whole point of that article was annointing both of those QB's and i just gave my take on the situation, nothing more nothing less. then i offered an opinion on how i think Sanchez will fare and my opinion on what the requirements for his success this yr will be.

    in the process i think i skewed my sentiment.
     
  14. TheCoolerGlennFoley

    TheCoolerGlennFoley Well-Known Member

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    What Flacco did is comparable to Roethlisberger's first SB run. They knew they could win having the QB manage the game, not make mistakes but still make a big throw when needed. I think similarily to how Roethlisberger has been given a chance to throw more as he develops, the same thing will happen with Flacco.

    I like Matt Ryan a lot and was hoping he'd fall to the Jets the year he came out, but you also have to keep in mind he a lot more talent around him on offense then Flacco did this year, as well as facing stiffer competition in college.
     
  15. Coach K

    Coach K New Member

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    im not bashing Flacco. not at all. I think hes got a fucking cannon and doesnt lack accuracy. throw in the mobility and theres not much to complain about.

    i like the parallel you make with him and Roethlisberger. good one, and I agree to that.

    Matt Ryan does have more talent on his offense. but you cant tell me the Falcons defense is even comparable to what the Ravens do.

    i think that was the biggest motive behind what im saying, the Ravens defense is any QB's best friend.

    theyre both going to be good QB's for a while ill just make that blanket statement now.

    i really dont know whats going on here cause we seem to agree on most of whats being discussed. i think i should just recant my statement of "Flacco is the epitome of above avg and nothing else"

    what i meant was he displays all the tools you want in a QB. but he wasnt required to make ALOT of plays on his own. thats about it.

    do i think Flacco is talented. well obviously my analysis on him should give you that notion.

    either way, if Sanchez can manage to play like either one this year we will be lucky. point in case.

    do i think hes capable? i think i explained that in my first response. but yes, if certain variables are met.
     
  16. Cotch Grab

    Cotch Grab New Member

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    Lets all remember that Sanchez is a lot more inexperienced than your average rookie quarterback. Stafford, Manning, Aikman, Ryan, and Flacco all had been starters in college for multiple years.

    A couple of things:
    - Sanchez has only started 16 games after high school.
    - Sanchez NEVER brought his team back from a 4th Qtr deficit or a halftime deficit in 2008. (Was that his fault? No, the team was that good. But he still has never done it)
    - Of his 34 TD passes in 2008, 10 came when USC was leading by 17 points or more and seven came against Washington State and Washington, who went a combined 2-23.

    Comparing Sanchez, based on his college experience, to these other QBs is wrong.

    That being said, I agree he will be asked to do a lot more of what Roethlisberger did in his rookie year, than matt ryan last year.
     
  17. The Great American

    The Great American Well-Known Member

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    I'm not exactly sure what a "hot marriage" is but I do have a great marriage with the lovely and talented Mrs. The Great American. But back on topic ...

    Living in Georgia I can tell you nearly everyone has a man crush on Matt Ryan and they are jealous when you mention the name Flacco in the same sentence. But IMO, both QB's raised the bar for rookie quarterbacks. IMO, it will be hard for future rookie QB's to match what they have accomplished.
     
  18. TheCoolerGlennFoley

    TheCoolerGlennFoley Well-Known Member

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    The lack of college experience is a concern but Sanchez also was brought up in a pro-style offense, both in high school and college. Guys that have played in the spread have had mixed success in the NFL, but I think having experience in a more traditional style offense, albeit limited, should at least just as valuable.

    And I'll be the judge of whether Mrs. TGA is talented or not. I'll let you guys know in the morning.
     
  19. Cotch Grab

    Cotch Grab New Member

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    also, just because you have started for four years in college doesn't meant you will be a good NFL Quarterback (and vice versa). I just brought up Sanchez's lack of college experience to debunk the "Ryan and Flacco did it so Sanchez will do it" theory that I just don't agree with.

    These guys are completely different players.

    The thing that scares the crap out of me is that Sanchez is praised for having an "it" factor more than people pointing out his stellar skills as a QB. Unfortunately, you can't judge "it" factor until you step on an NFL field.

    All that being said, I am happy he is the starter and I hope he can handle it.
     
  20. Harpua

    Harpua Well-Known Member

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    I don't. We are going to have a strong running game and have a solid O-line barrring injuries. Last season 22% of the Jets passes flew less than 1 yard down feild, a NFL high, and I don't expect Shotty to change his fondness of short passses and screens this season.

    Sanchez is going to be asked to hand the ball off alot, around the 55% level that the ravens and Falcons hit last season. All of Jones, Leon, and greene are going to see a lot of work. The Jets know that the have a talented rookie, but a rookie at QB. We will lean on the run and our defense this season.
     

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