First off, Leon was not even close to that yardage last year. His total was just over 2300 yards. So in that light, a guy like Ted Ginn who put up almsot 1500 yards should be worth 4 mill? I mean thats two thirds of the salary for two thirds of the total yardage. Makes a lot of sense right? Jerious Norwood put up 2400 total yards last year. That puts him a bit higher than Leon. So, about 6.2 mill in your preception? Or, perhaps Kick return yardage is not valued like other yardage for contract purposes. Seeing as guys like Glen Holt and Ellis Hobbs put up similar, if not better, Kick return numbers last year. 6 million is laughable for Leon at this point for a long term deal. 4 Million is a lot closer to a workable number. Ploping down 6 mill of cap space for a guy who has shonw to be very good in spot duty and as a returner is too much of a cap hit when you can find kick return specialists and 3rd down backs for a lot less then that if Leon fails in a larger role.
You obviously did not read the post after that. Salary is not predicated on Yardage. It is predicated on the ability to replace the skillset... Leon's worth to the offense, consists of his proven ability in 2 phases of the game, and the hidden potential by expanding his role on offense..(8 more touches per game)
How are you sure he can handle an expanded role? Will his KR game suffer if he's used more as a running back? Will he retain PR dutys this season or will they be handled by Leonard? His ability is proven to be good as a part time role player, not a 6 million dollar feature back. Is he bound to become a breakout player like a Westbrooke or a huge failure like a Lamont Jordan? There is not sure way of knowing. That is why you do not pay him huge money on a long term deal right now. He is already under contract this year. He can hold out of Camp and get fined, only costing himself money. He can play out the deal and get franchised, if thats even needed, and make his 6 mill. He could resign a longer term deal for more sensible money. The big problem for him is at this point, the Jets hold all the cards. He has no leverage out side of holding out of camp. With Greene comming in Leon's role in the offense is not going to expand by 8 touches a game, but probly stay similar to what they were last season. Maybe, and thats a big one, squeeze a couple more touches a game out, but not as big of a jump as your expecting. ...and no player has ever come back in the lean years of the deal for more money. Not Jones or Kendall thats for sure. Right? What makes you think Leon would be any different from those two?
How can they possibly NOT expand Leon's role? He was used so little last season by Mangini and Schotty.
Well, Jones is most likely going to see 200 + carries. Leaving 200 or so for Leon and Greene to split. Unless we completely rely on the run and carry 550 + times this season. Leon is only one part of what, for now, is goign to be a RBBC that has 3 people each takeing share of the work load. Leon had 148 Touches last season on offense alone. 8 per Game gets him to almost 250. None of the Baltimore trio hit that level last season. McLain came the closest, but he was a defense punishing Fullback, not a third down type guy. Both Ray Rice and and Willis McGhaee finished with under 200 touches. I would expect Jones to still see the majority of touches with Greene gettting a lot of second half/Short yardage carries and Leon see a good deal of third down duty next year.
Last year Leon PROVED he DESRVED A SHOT at being a "feature" back (for the lack of better terms since we have TJ and Greene). This doesn't mean he earned the right to get the money of a feature back nor that he is a feature back. If this year he proves he IS a feature back then he'll have a lot more leverage in contract negotiations... and I think the Jets are right in waiting and letting him prove what he can give to the team.
i disagree with the fact that he deserves a shot. he's not built for it, and considering the year TJ put up, i don't see why he should. HOWEVER, he should be used more, no doubt.
I agree with that logic. If Leon can be a much bigger part of the offense, still hold up both physically and production wise, he nca take his money. I'd pay him well for the potential he has shown. Four Million is nothing to laugh at for a guy thats never rushed for over 700 yards in a single season. The mentality of "pay him more up front for a bargin down the road" does not work well. It gives you guys like Thomas Jones who, although he made 14 Million in two years, acting under paid. Sign a ncie deal now or play the Franchise tag game with him. He's not going anywhere for a few years if the Jets decide to keep him.
I can definitely see 550 carries this year, Ryan has already made it clear (as if he had to) that the running game is going to be a crutch. Probably why they really aren't putting a priority on finding a wideout to line up across the field from Cotch. I think they begin phasing TJ out of the lineup because I just don't see him with the team the following year, contract or not.
phasing him out how? he would still have to get the most carries IMO, for this team to be successful.
I really don't see anything special about the game TJ brings to the field. His greatest assets are blocking and durability. And while that is nice, when you are going to crutch the running game, you need backs that can create during the play or smash through tacklers, neither of which I have seen much of from TJ. He follows the blocks and gets what he can, but if it isn't easily there, then he doesn't get it. He did impress me as far as effort goes about halfway through 2008, but his body of work as a whole is that of an unimpresive cutback runner with no moves and less power.
so you're gameplan for running the ball would be (in say 1 or 2 years)... greene pouding. with leon spelling him and obvious 3rd down duties?
I agree about phasing out of Jones, but it will be a slow process. He's still going to get his carries. Maybe not 290 again, but over 200. If we do go to around 550 carries (Edit: would have been Third in the NFL last season) that leaves a big chunk for Leon and Green to split. Perhaps as high as 300 carries. With that, you lose chances to get in on passing plays, where leon is used extensivly, and the defense will play the run much harder, making it hard to hold up those lofty YPC numbers for all of our backs. If his offensive touches get that high, would you expect him to retain PR and KR duties? None of the 3 for Baltimore handled those more then a few times. Jones-Drew had KR duties taken away when he took a bigger role in the offense last season. If he's going to be getting 200 + touches on offense his special teams work will become more limited.
I think we'll still be RBBC, but it's not extremely hard to find running backs in this league. We don't need a guy to do it all for us. Let's look at the rushing totals for each team's running backs last season: Pats 1988 Jets 1833 Phins 1748 Bills 1612 The Patriots' backs led the division in rushing with no true starters in their backfield (6 total running backs). I know they had Welker and Moss providing somewhat of a cushion, but they also were running behind a suspect O-line and taking handoffs from a nobody stand-in QB. RBBC works if you do it right. Just look at the Cardinals.
I happen to think Leon is a terrible PR and I'm glad we picked up Leonhard to take that over from him. Every time he's back there fielding a punt I'm yelling 'Don't muff the fucking ball, Leon!'. He's almost as bad at PR as he is good at KR. As far as KR goes, hell yes he's going to keep doing that... unless we find someone who can step in and take those duties from him. It doesn't seem that long ago that Westhoff was making Chad Morton look like Brian Mitchell. It really depends on how they need to move the pieces around. But I happen to think that Leon is so versatile that he could step in and take half the carries in a season.
They also ran the ball 513 times last year, good for 4th in the NFL. Pats 513 2278 4.4 YPC Phins 448 1897 4.2 Bills 439 1842 4.2 Jets 422 2004 4.7 We actually ran less then any other team in the AFC East last year. Kinda scary. Only two teams in the NFL both ran the ball more than the Jets and averaged more the 4.5 per carry. The Giants and Panthers. If we go run heavy, expect our averages to fall, but totals to climb. If we stick with the RBBC thing, are any of them worth 6 + mill?
i tend to agree with this. i can count on a couple fingers how many good PR plays he's made. maybe that's because of blocking, but whatever. for the record, im even more skeptical of leonhard as a PR (and as a safety for that matter). he's white and slow, good reasons for skepticism.
none of them are worth 6 mill. and leon will definetly be settling for less, as again, he is not a feature back.
I'm not arguing to give Leon 6+ mil a year, but I think his combined duties - KR, slot, back, could definitely amount to feature back money. I just don't think feature back money has to total 6+. I'd be comfortable with 4-5M a year, incentive-laden.
Well, I agree about westhoff. Is there any reason someone else will not step into that role and thrive? Miller was replaced by Leon, who's to say Stucky or Wright will not be able to slide in. I can't think of any 200 + carry RB that also returns kicks.
