well, he wasn't solid and he didn't pitch 6. :smile: I predicted 5 innings, 4 runs. Close. I'm a supporter of Chien-Ming Wang making me money. :up:
Cappy, aren't you getting worried about Tampa Bay? They've been playing pretty well lately, and their run differential suggests they should be doing a hell of a lot better than they have been so far. This could turn into a two team race, with the Yankees not being one of the two... I've spent most of the season thinking the Yankees will be fine, but since the series in Boston I've been starting to think they could be headed to another third place finish.
Memo to Chien-Ming Wang for next week: - I want brown rice, not white rice. - 1 egg roll, not 2!!! - Sesame chicken with white meat only. - Extra duck sauce and mustard. I get a free soda with my order...make sure you bring Sprite or Ginger Ale...and none of that diet sh*t, either. And it better be here in a half hour...or else!
I was at the game tonight, not too much to write home about. That DP was killer but you can't hate on him too much--he had a tough at bat and that was a great pitch by MacDougal to finish it, and the Yankees shouldn't have been in that situation to begin with. Wang wasn't very good--on the plus side he kept the ball down for the most part, but he clearly doesn't have any sense for the strike zone right nwo and it hurts the team. Hughes, on the other hand, is clearly ready to be in the rotation permanently. If he doesn't replace Wang he should have Pettitte's spot, he's just pitching great. At the end of the day when you let a picher of Lannan's caliber shut you down through 8 while barely throwing 100 pitches you aren't going to win games. The Yankees didn't even really deserve to be in position to tie.
I don't think Tampa's pitching staff will hold up. Kazmir's down, Sonnanstine won't repeat what he did last year, and their pen is in shambles (while the Yanks' pen has quietly been improving). They've also lost Iwamura for the year, Bartlett's coming back from an injury, and it doesn't look like Upton is going to be the player they expected him to be, for whatever reason. Could they do better? Yeah. Am I "worried" about them? Nah.
Yeah, I was wrong about who the ERA was for, so that obviously changes things a bit, at least in terms of the offense. As for Wang, come on guys. He was up, up, up all night; while his velocity was down. If he were facing a better offensive team he'd never have made it through 3. Also, as much as we've been bitching about Posada, Wang couldn't hit his glove no matter where he put it. On the other hand, Hughes continues to pitch well when he gets an opportunity. I just can't get on board with Wang staying in the rotation to figure things out. I'm with Cappy in terms of Tampa Bay though. I don't think they're as good as their run differential might make you think. That doesn't necessarily make me feel a lot better though. Even if the Yankees win the wild card, right now, I have no confidence they can get out of the first round.
The Yankees went on a tremendous run for 3 weeks and then they got swept by the Sox. Since then they won their next series(against the Mets) and theyre most likely gonna win this series today(of course we all wanted the sweep). Why all the negativity? If Im not negative noone should be. Wang has been better his last two starts. Its improvement. He certainly was not the reason we lost yesterday
Few things. Who did the Yankees beat over the past month and half before Boston? The only legit teams they beat over that span were Texas and Toronto, who I'd argue are overrated anyway, and arguably Tampa Bay, but we've already discussed them. What did Wang do that looked like improvement? The significant loss of velocity? The lack of ability to get his sinker down? Or are we simply considering it improvement that he made it through 5 against an offense that is, as I showed yesterday, league average at best? On the other hand, what did Hughes do to not impress you? What does this kid have to do to get his rightful spot in the rotation? I'd like to know if people are still giving Girardi a break. All jokes about sample size aside, how many stupid in-game decisions (or lack thereof) is this guy going to be allowed to make? What possible reason was there to not send ARod on the first pitch of the Cano at-bat? If he gets thrown out at second, Gardner ties the game. If they don't throw down, the ground ball that ended the game on a DP either scores Gardner, or only makes it two outs, second and third, with Posada up. Also, why the hell is everyone swinging at first pitches from MacDougal? This guy couldn't find the strike zone with road map. He's all over the place. They teach you in freaking Little League to take a strike on a guy who is that erratic. Speaking of Little League, this past weekend we had a kid pitch against our team who likes to work really fast; like as soon as he gets the ball back from the catcher, he's ready to throw his next pitch. The easy answer to that is to step out of the box and make him wait. Take him out of his rythm. Why weren't the Yankees doing that last night?
Does it matter? How many really good teams are there? The best record is still the best record. If you want to bitch that they only have the best record over that span because they played 2/3 of the games against shitty teams, that's a seriously half-empty glass you're looking at. I thought it was already clear... the issue is not about who is the better pitcher right now. It's about what helps the Yanks the most - not only OMG RIGHT NOW!!1! - but down the stretch and into next year and beyond. If it takes a handful of starts for Wang to get his shit togther, so be it. Give him a handful of starts. The team will be far better off for it. And if he doesn't figure it out, well... I'm not sure how far they'd be going if he doesn't get his act together.
I wonder if Arod is on orders not to run, ever, for fear he reinjures his hip? Just throwing it out there.
It wouldn't matter if they hadn't lost all their games to the one team that actually stands in their way. The best record from April to September means squat if you don't have the best record in October. Do you discount what Hughes would bring to the table, both immediately, and in the long-term? Come on man, I know that's not the case. What is the problem with making him figure out his problems in pen, while Hughes wins games in the rotation? Andy's spot will be available for Wang next year if he earns it. If not, we have Aceves, and possibly Kennedy. Now I admit that my initial "Trade Wang's dumb ass" comments were far too reactionary, but as I've asked before, how long is his rope? At what point do you say "Okay, this dude's hung himself enough?" As they say in the investment industry, past performance is no guarantee of future results. Just because Wang won a lot of games over the course of two years doesn't mean it's repeatable now. EDIT: And still, I ask the question, what did everyone see last night that made them say to themselves "He looks like he's improving" other than the fact that he pitched more innings than any other time this year? His velocity was down, but his sinker wasn't. That's batting practice. I definitely considered that, but he stole second recently (last week I think it was,) and he was fine. Plus, his mobility at third appears to be back as well. Besides, wouldn't it make more sense for him to attempt to steal, and score on a base hit from second, rather than try to score on that same hit from first, if you're that worried about him hurting himself? And if you're really that concerned about ARod's running ability, you have Berroa playing with foul balls in the dugout. Let him run. Swish was going to first for Teixeira, Gardner to center, Melky to right if there was a 10th anyway. Worse comes to worst, Berroa plays 3rd. May as well play for all the marbles when you're down one at home in the ninth.
Alio lemme ask y ou this. If we go 0-18 against Boston this year and win the wild card does it make any difference? If Texas and Tampa and Toronto are overrated as you say...then who is good in the AL? Boston? One team? Great we'll win the wild card and worry about them in the ALCS. No reason to worry now.....the Yankees continue to win two out of three. Thats all we have to do. Seperate note about running Arod. If Arod steals they walk cano and the double play machine Posada comes up. It does of course put more pressure on Macdougla with the bases loaded but cano has been hot and all he needs is a fly ball. Im just sayin MAYBE it wasnt the worst thing not to run Arod there, although im not 100% behind my own theory haha. As far as starting Wang last night, the upside of him starting and possibly getting closer to form far out weighs the downside...considering its ONE game in June-as you say hes facing an average at best team in the Nats...and lets face it, had Hughes started last night, we still probably lose that game since we had two hits going into the ninth inning.
As far as A-Rod not stealing, I'll make 2 points: 1) I was at the game so I didn't see any analysis of this, but I'm not entirely convinced that Gardner's steal of 3rd was called from the dugout. It was a dangerous play and I suspect that it stuck in Girardi's mind. If A-Rod went for second and MacDougal cut off the throw, I'm not convinced that Gardner wouldn't have been caught out at the plate. 2) There may be lingering concerns about A-Rod's hip. If so, Berroa probably should've been brought in to pinch run, but you can understand why Girardi would rather leave him in. 3) MacDougal is a really bad pitcher. The Yankees had good odds to at least tie with corners and 1 out and Cano at the dish, Girardi probably didn't want to blow that with a baserunning mistake. Obviously it backfired but I don't think we should kill him over that decision. That's the real question, and it wasn't just swinging at MacDougal. Lannan got through 8 inning barely cracking 100 pitches. Ramiro Pena faced like 4 pitches all freaking game. That's why the Yankees lost, not because of Cano or Girardi.
Yep, to that same point, why the hell has Arod been swinging at so many first pitches? That shit is driving me crazy. One of the most feared hitters in the game and he swings at almost every first pitch. You'll almost never see Pujols swinging at the first pitch. A power hitter like that almost always takes a first pitch to setup the pitcher. I was at the game last night and I'm wondering what happend to the methodical, patient Yankee hitters. They made it beyond easy on Lannan by swinging early in counts. The whole team looked like they were going through the motions offensively.
Jesus Christ, dude. You're missing the point. You can either recognize that they've played pretty damn good baseball since May 1st, or you can bitch about how they're not playing better. The choice is yours. (Although, relatively speaking, they're not capable of playing better than "the best record in baseball" since May 1st.) The problem is who is stretched out, and who is not, as well as which pitcher fits better where. Wang is at his best when he pitches to contact. Hughes is a strikeout pitcher, more or less. And if Wang fully reclaims his spot, then Hughes can go down and stretch out to a starter again. Do you really think that the Yanks aren't going to need another starter at some point this year? Who would you like that to be? If Wang's in the pen, it's not going to be him. Kennedy's down for the year. Aceves is a short-reliever now. It'd be Igawa. Awesome. His sinker was inconsistent, but his velocity was fine. Average FB last night from Wang came in at 91.83. His average FB in 2008 was 91.8 mph. More importantly, you're bitching about a Wang start in a game that wasn't lost because of pitching. 10 of 15 outs were on the ground. If it weren't for that ump's blown call and Pena's drop, he's out of the fifth inning with one run, and maybe goes six. Judging from the graphs, 31 of his pitches over the plate were down in the zone or just out of it. 12 were left up. When he missed up, he was 2" off the plate. This game was lost by the offense.
Okay, rather than quote everyone, I'll just respond generally. If we can't play the Sox competitively now, what makes anyone think we can best them in October. Might I call attention to the Angels, whom we struggled with during the year, just to watch them knock us out in the playoffs, no matter how many times we were able to beat on the bottom 2/3 of the league? As for Wang, his "best" performance of the year wasn't all that good, and it was against an average team. If he pitches like that against any team with a winning record, he doesn't get through 9 outs. Again, what did anyone see that makes them believe that he's figuring things out? Velocity down + sinker up = future disaster. I highly doubt the organization is that worried about Alex's hip at this point. He's got his mobility, and again, if he has to score from first, doesn't that increase the chance of reinjury more than the steal, then scoring from second? And beyond that, Berroa is busy giving kids souveniers in the dugout. Let him run if you're that scared. As for Gardner, the one thing he brings to the team is his ability to get around the bases. Stealing third was crazy, and I didn't think it was called from the dugout. But it worked. So you take advantage of that. Even if you think MacDougal is going to cut the throw off, just hold Gardner. Second and third, one out. Then you change the entire dynamic of Cano's at-bat anyway. As for the Yankees hitters, there was a complete lack of discipline last night, and again, that goes back to coaching. Why aren't Girardi and Long telling these guys to slow down, take some pitches? I ask it a lot, and it bears repitition: what is the job of the coaching staff? Are they responsible for anything? Because they're not taking any of that responsibility.
woa woa woa so Arod takes off for second in your scenario, MacDougal cuts it off but Gardner is able to hold up cuz I guess hes not running until the ball gets to 2nd? And Arod of course is safe at second because after macdougla cuts it off he just watches Arod continue to second. Did I get it right? Kind of optimistic no? Sometimes its as simple as the guy at the plate has to execute. Sometimes the piutcher wins. Cano had a very good at bat and then ultimately grounded into a DP on a good sinking fastball. Dems da breaks
No, if you're scared MacDougal is going to cut it off, you hold Gardner to begin with (which is how that play winds up working out most of the time anyway.) So you have 2nd and 3rd, 1 out, and no DP. Cano absolutely had a good at-bat. And yes, he got beat. That doesn't excuse not playing to win in the ninth. The fact is, they had an opportunity to take away the double-play, and chose not to. They lost on that decision. That, and a complete lack of discipline at the plate.
