Their best player? Have you lost your mind? We gave them stability at the QB position, I'll give you/them that.
Tell me where they would have gone if we kept Pennington and they went to battle with Beck or whoever. Chad was second in league MVP voting and the winner wasn't a Dolphin, it was Peyton Manning. That what I'm basing it on.
On this board, 78% of all arguments turn into Chad Pennington arguments. I just wish Minnesota had signed him last year instead of Miami, he'd be out of our lives.
No one knows where they would have gone. Parcells brought in a lot of players to shore up the trenches on both sides for them last year. Pennington got 4 votes, probably 3 from Fla media guys and 1 from a disgruntled NY guy. I say that mostly tongue in cheek, but the dramatic improvement in there record had a lot to do with those votes. My point is that Parcells brought in coaching and players like he always does and turned the team around. Pennington was a part of that, yes, but I completely disagree he is their best player. The last LFins game we saw, he looked like the worst player on the field for the them. If not the worst, he was far from their best. If I had to pick, I'd say Ronnie Brown is their best player. Jake Long and Joey Porter also come to mind.
Manning had 32 votes....Penny had 4 (tied with Michael Turner). Not exactly a strong showing by Penny (finishing 2nd or not). Using the fact that he finished 2nd is a pretty weak argument considering the amount of votes he garnered.
The point being, aside from a handful of bitter Jet fans clinging to their Chad hatred, most of the objective football world saw Pennington as the main reason for Miami turning it around. I'm not saying he did it alone or that he should have been neck and neck with Manning for MVP, I'm simply saying that we--the Jets--gave them the most important piece to their puzzle for 2008. For free. You can argue all day about who their "best" player is, without a veteran QB to tie it all together, Miami doesn't win the AFC East last year.
They probably don't win it if every other starting QB in the division isn't hurt either. You're the one who claimed he is their best player.
The Bills game in Miami wasn't even close. Miami dominated the second half of that game.The Bills had 5 fumbles and 1 int. The Bills gave up 4 turnovers total and it should have been 5 after a saftey where Trent Fumbled the ball. Miami's D was doing whatever they wanted to the Bills especially in the redzone the Bills were over matched. In the Bills game against the Dolphins in Toronto Miami won 16-3 and dominated the TOP 37:31 TO 22:39 Bills had 2 turnovers Dolphins had none. Pennington was 23/29 181 yards 1 TD no int's and that was the game against JP. So JP or Trent Miami dominated both QB's. The Bills weren't even close to winning either game. I have game rewind on NFL.com I just rewatched the Bills Dolphins game in Miami last year so don't try to tell me the Bills were in that game cause you're dreaming. Trent Edwards: Week 8 vs Miami- 21-35 for 227 yards 0 TD's and 1 int and 2 fumbles. JP Losman: Week 14 vs Miami- 13-27 123 0 TD's 1 int Basically JP had the better game. But you go ahead and live in some world where Trent is superman and the Bills are awesome. :lol:
Parcells has a track record of bringing in veterans and bringing the level of play to respectibility. He (within the last 10 years) cannot seem to get over the hump to win the big games though.
Really, what about Turnner? I think he had a damn good season, was his showing poor too? Manning won and he deserved it, but it doesn't change the fact that Pennington was in the voting and Brett wasn't.
And I'll stand by that. "Probably" is a waste of an argument, a lot of shit could have probably happened any number of ways. I'm talking about what actually did happen.
The main point of your argument is that they wouldn't have done what they did without Pennington. Isn't that a "probably"? In other words, it's a perfectly logical argument to say "without pennington they don't win the east", but it's illogical to say "without the injuries to every other starting QB in the east they may not have won"? Is that what you're saying?
sparano is a product of the parcells tree. and you have to be blind deaf dumb and a retard if you dont think parcells has a LARGE influence on what that team does. he might not be coaching, but you know damn well they run things his way in all aspects.
A) I never mentioned Turner's season....and you're comparing a HB to a QB ...which has absolutely no bearing on this situation and B)I also never brought up Brett Favre...let alone...threw him in your face. You keep reaching new heights in the FAIL dept. :up:
Not for nuthin, I realize you're a Jet fan and hate the Dolphins...as it should be, but at least you're reasonable. You're making some valid points and it's basically what I've been doing. I never called Chad the best QB in the division, I never said Miami was gonna contend for a SB this year. I've simply been fighting a battle aginst the idiotic notion that everything wrong in NY from 2000 to 2007 was Chads fault and Chad will never win the big games. Both are irrelevant to the future. A) because Chads no longer a Jet and B) No one can possibly know what the future holds. This has been the crux of this argument for more than 20 pages and youd think I was here telling Jet fans Chad was gonna win a SB and league MVP now that he's a Dolphin and I've done nothing of the sort. Trying to be the slightest bit realistic in a situation where some people aren't having it and suddenly the insults and name calling are all some people can muster simply because everyone doesn't fall in line with the same idiotic beliefs. Bottom line, I'm glad to see an occasional Jet fan with the ability to reason and have an adult discussion. It in no way shape or form diminishes your love for the Jets and hate for the Dolphins, but it gives you credibility and maturity the majority of Jet fans here rsuse to display..:up:
No, I'm not saying "probably". I'm saying no way in hell does Miami sniff the division without us handing them Chad Pennington for free. That was my original point and really all I'm saying. Once again, I'm dealing in what actually happened: 1-We cut Chad on a Thursday 2-Miami picks him up on a Friday 3-Miami comes into our place four months later in Week 17, Chad throws two TDs and walks out with a division title for them. Rationalize that all you want, throw in all the "probablys" and "what-ifs" you want, if we don't do step 1, steps 2 and 3 do not happen.
Thanks. It's really just the continuation of the same stuff that has gone on here for years when Chad was a Jet, with the same posters involved. Him moving to a division rival only added a new twist to the same old argument.
A) I never said you did, I just wonder how you feel about Turners season considering it was MVP worthy as was Chads. You can't simply say because Manning had the vast majority of the votes the other candidates weren't really candidates. That was was you were implying wasn't it? B) You didn't bring up Brett Favre because he wasn't a candidate, I did because you seem to think coming in a distant second is like not being worthy of an award only one person can win. I brought up Favre because he replaced Chad Pennington to help the Jets win football games Chad couldn't and yet Brett coming off a 13 win season just the season before couldn't help the Jets and for some reason you still can't seem to get past the fact that even a HOF QB couldn't help the Jets make the playoffs, but everyhting wrong with the Jets before Brett arrived was Chads fault? Tell me, are you thick as a brick? You can watch an entire season with a HOF QB at the helm of your beloved Jets and he can't bring your team a playoff berth, but that is irrelevant to what the problem is with the Jets? However when Pennington is the QB....he's exactly what the problem is with the Jets? You really are a joke.
I don't necessarily disagree with that. I also don't think they sniff the division if the other 3 qb's aren't injured. Both are based on projecting things that are not facts. You can't say that they wouldn't have sniffed the division w/out Chad is a fact. If you honestly believe that's a fact then I guess our conversation here is over. I also don't agree he is their best player, which was the only reason I responded to you to begin with.
