Clemens was not drafted with a high #2, he was drafted with a midround #2. There's a huge difference in the payoff you get from drafting a QB at the top of the 2nd round and one in the mid-2nd and later.
We're splitting hairs now. He was a #2 pick in the very first draft of Tannenbaum's control, second pick he ever made. That's addressing the position. Did it work? We'll see.
Are you seriously trying to paint me as someone who can't agree with you? Pffft. I just don't buy the stat argument. I don't think that every QB that has won a Super Bowl is great, but after watching Ben Roethlisberger do what he did in this year's Super Bowl, and in the playoffs, to help his team win, I see greatness. Regardless of the stats. Regardless of a few screwups. Because when it counted, when they needs him to escape under pressure and keep the drive alive, when they needed a perfect pass thrown, when they needed him to fight through sacks on safety blitzes, he did it. He is a tough bastard, and I look at him as more of a throwback player than people who think Favre is, because Favre was tough, but he couldn't just shrug off sack attempts. Half the time I expect to see Big Ben wearing a leather helmet. He plays with the confidence and grit that I want from a franchise QB. Not one that realizes his physical limitations in crunch time and throws the game away in futility trying to overcome those flaws. You give the entire season to their defense. That's inane. The defense just makes the complete product a great team, and that's why they won in the end. You put Chad Pennington under center in Pittsburgh in 2008, the Ravens and the Cardinals are playing in Arizona this year.
That remains to be seen. If they didn't look at any angle to improve the team they wouldn't be doing their job, it doesn't mean they don't like who they have. As it stands right now they like Clemens and Ratliff enough to have them as the top two QBs on our depth chart and stand to compete for the starting job.
As you well know a QB competition is an admission that you don't have a starting QB that you believe in. You can spin it all you want that competition makes you better but a young QB who management believes in needs the work not the competition. The competition comes from the other team. If the job isn't handed to either Clemens or Ratliff fairly quickly before pre-season, management again shows themselves unprepared at the key position. These guys aren't being paid to get lucky.
I disagree with just handing the job to a guy you picked out of a hat, that's hoping to get lucky, then you're stuck with the guy even if he sucks. That's what they did with Browning Nagle and it cost them a season. At least if they have to fight for it the better guy will start and have some momentum going for him. All the competition says is there is no veteran incumbent, something management had to account for the day they went and got Favre last summer.
Picked out of a hat? Interesting way to put it and if you believe that Tannenbaum should have been fired a long time ago.
I believe the saying is... when you have two starting quarterbacks you have no starting quarterbacks.
Not literally, but how else do you just hand the job to a guy unless he earns it on the field? And how long do you stick with that if the guy isn't getting the job done? I just can't understand how anyone is against competition of any kind. Nobody is saying we have two starting QBs, we have two guys to compete for one job. There are all kinds of sayings, but what's your solution then? Drafting a guy still leaves us with no clear cut starter, just another young guy at the end of the line, he'll have to compete for the job, too. Picking up a veteran? Who?
Look at the Giants. You may not like Eli Manning, you may not like what they paid for him but they believed in him, prepared him gave him the job and built a SB team around him. It's called management.
They had the #4 pick and Eli was there to go up and get at #1. We have the #17 pick and who is there worth moving up 16 spots for? And what would that cost? It's easy to say go get an Eli Manning, pretty much every team in the leagues knows that, its much harder to actually do. I don't see any QB in the draft who is going to walk in here and start over the guys we have.
My solution? Right now the offense sucks except for the O-line. From what we understand Ryan wants a power running game and QB that doesn't make mistakes. The Jets should no enough by now on Clemens. My opinion is that they do and he is not the answer, so don't waste time with him and reps that can be used on the actual starter Barring another HOFer dropping the Jets lap, I say go with Ratliff. Draft Pettigrew as a #2 blocking TE and run the ball. Two days ago, I would have suggested they sign Leftwich and cut Clemens, but Leftwich was picked up by TB.
I don't think that was Winston's point. Rather, I think he was trying to say that the Giants made a definitive decision on the most important position in football. Stuck with it, didn't waste picks on stopgaps and built a team around their "guy."
They gave up a ton for him, draft picks and Rivers they could have stuck with Rivers. The point is he was the guy they wanted to build around and nothing stopped them from getting him and even after giving up value for him getting the talent needed to win and win big. I don't have any sense that we have gone after a guy we believe is the guy. I get the sense that we are hoping that competition or numbers or luck is going to get it done. I don't beleive that's the right approach.
I'm in agreement here. Although I don't think our running game sucks, assuming Jones and Leon are back with the team it should be pretty good. I would also give Ratliff a shot, based on the options available, but I think he should earn it. If he can't beat out Clemens then play Clemens.
I understand what you're saying, my point is the circumstances allowed the Giants to do what they did. They had a top 5 pick going into a draft with multiple options for a franchise QB. We've not been in a situation to do that, it's not like there is a top notch QB in every draft that we keep passing on.
We had a perfect opportunity to do just that last year. We sure as hell wouldn't have the biggest question mark in he league a the most important posiion on the field if we did.
Who? Ryan was gone and Flacco may or may not turn out to be a franchise QB. Atlanta needed a QB as badly as we did, worse, actually. What makes you think they were going to trade out of the pick at any cost? Again, the Giants had Rivers in their draft to make the Eli trade, that's what it took for that to happen. Last year that wasn't the case, we'd have had to move from #6 to #2 without a QB to exchange, plus Ryan wasn't refusing to play for Atlanta as Eli was for San Diego. Not the same situation, not even close.
Who really knows when it comes to the draft but leading up to last years draft all indications were that both StL and Atl were willing to trade out of their spots and probably would have for the right offer.
