Big Ben played very well against that defense. Pennington has NEVER been able to attack a top defense in the playoffs. He folds like a cheap suit.
Miami also had no WRs for that game. Camarillo was already out, they dressed three WRs and one went down early in the game. Pretty hard to attack when you have no weapons. The strongest arm in the world can't complete passes to nobody. Chad had a bad game, did get a TD as you mentioned, but nobody really lit up the Ravens D. The good news is we got Rex Ryan and some of their players.
I agree that BR played better then Chad and Collins. But he only put up 10 points. Pitts defense won the game. BR threw one TD but also could not move the ball on two INTs in the ravens territory. Basically the pitt defense scored 13 points and their offense scored 10. If Big ben would have had the Tenn or Miami defense he would have lost.
BR made big plays when the pressure was on and they needed to score to win the game. Obviously he needed his defense to keep them in the game to have a shot at winning but he took advantage of that shot like he has done many times already in his young career.
How many turnovers did Ben have against the Ravens? How efficient was he on third down? Look at the game he had vs the game Chad had with 4 turnovers and the same lack of running game? The problem is you don't know what to look for. Rothlisberger was outstanding in that game, he was the single best Offensive player on the field and made plays in big situations. The fact that he didn't have a statistically great game isn't the point. Against a great D he made plays he moved the team he got them in position to score points, keep the ball, keep field position, all the things the poster I was responding to wants in a QB. The fact that he has a great arm, is strong as a bull and can throw the ball while being hit, or on the move in less than perfect throwing position is why he can do those things against a great D. Arm strength, physical strength matters. Its not the entire package by any means but the idea that it doesn't matter is simply foolish. There is an idea around here that the QB doesn't have to do more than not screw up. Ideally your QB should have the ability to make plays and threaten the D every second the ball is in his hands because the way to win against a great D is to keep the game close win the field position battle and bust a big play once in awhile. Having the ability to make that big play from the QB position is the single biggest threat to a quality NFL D. Game managers who don't turn the ball over against mediocre D's do turn the ball over against great D's because at some point they have to do more than manage the game and they simply don't have the physical ability to beat the D.
My point was that Pitts defense was the difference and the reason they beat the Ravens. Yes Ben played well enough to win on the recieving end of 4 turnovers. Props to him for that. But he didn't play well enough to win if his defense didn't get him the ball the way that they did. Again, even with all the turnovers he put up 13 points. If you beleive that Pitt won that game because their offense played amazing then thats your choice. I beleive they won the game because their defense kicked major booty. You make mention that arm strength and physical strength are important. Probably Bens biggest asset in that game is he is big and is tough to sack. Mobility and his size makes him able to make plays in the pocket where a lot of QBs would be sacked. So absolutly he has that going for him and it helped a lot against a team like the Ravens. Probably more then arm strenth. Miami and Tenn combined for a whopping one takeaway against the Ravens. Pitt forced 4. I didn't base anything on "because I said so". Did you put any thought into your post?
No offense Ouchy but arm strength is part of his game and it's part of Mannings game and Palmers game and Brady's game something he worked hard to improve just so he could throw the ball with something on it from awkward positions or when getting banged. Ben moves well and he stops and throws against his body all the time and that take arm strength. I'm not sure the love affair that some posters like yourself have with QB's with crappy arms but since we no longer have one on the team it's time to get over it. Arm Strength is a key ingredient along with a good frame, good vision, a good feel for the game and a great feel for what the O and the D is trying to do. It is very near impossible to be a top QB without a good arm.
Is it because I corrected you that Chad threw a TD against the Ravens and now the whole post is I love weak armed QBs? I would have traded Chad for Big Ben in a heartbeat if that was ever an option.
I like the point you made here and I think it's one that was not given enough weight in this thread. The great thing about a QB having big arm strength is not necessarily that he can rocket the ball downfield (though of course that's great too), but the fact that, as you say, arm strength can save many awkward/broken/botched plays when the QB has the gun to get throws off in situations when their body is out of position.
Arm strength is THE MOST OVERRATED aspect of quarterback play. Knowledge of the game, reading defenses, accuracy, leadership, character, toughness, intelligence, escapeability, etc. are at least as important - most are more important than arm strength. Everytime a weaker armed QB gets intercepted the fans blame his arm strength. Funny how many of the most intercepted QBs had cannons for arms. When they were intercepted the "experts" always blamed them for trying to force the ball (in other words - they made a stupid play). Give me a smart, efficient QB over a strong armed one of lesser intelligence any day. There are great QBs that had strong arms (Elway, Marino) but there are just as many great ones with weak arms too (Montana, Unitas). Arm strength is just 1 of a long list of things to look for in a QB and it's not at the top of the list.
Arm strength IS important, for the reasons winstonbiggs pointed out and simply because it allows a QB to get the ball there before a DB can react. We're talking about intermediate passes and not a high arcing pass deep down the field that aren't a real measure of arm strength. While arm strength is not the most important quality for a QB, if you don't have enough of it, you're not gonna be successful playing QB in the NFL anyway.
Agree but also disagree Sinjz - I agree arm strength is important - but not highly important. Your assertion that "if you don't have it you can't be successful in the NFL" is what I disagree with. Montana was noted for his lack of arm strength (Unitas too) but they seemed to be successful. Our own exQB Chad Pennington is known for his lack of arm strength but he has been a successful NFL QB. He has been to the playoffs an amazing percent of the time playing on some pretty mediocre JETS and DOLPHIN teams. He was second in the MVP voting to Peyton Manning last year and has been Comeback Player of the Year twice. There are a lot of weak armed successful QBs who have played in the NFL.
Unitas had a very solid arm it was not at all week. He was however noted for his great timing which made arm strength less relevant. He and Berry worked like dogs to develop chemistry and timing that was ahead of its time. Montana was really the only truly great QB I remeber with a below average arm although it was better than people give him credit for. Montana also had the advantage of having a new Offense developed for him that was way ahead of NFL defenses. He, like Unitas, also had an incredible sense of timing with his WR which allowed him to release balls very early which made up for his underwhelming arm. The problem is NFL defenses adjust and there are very few QB's with that kind of incredible timing that gives them an advantage over the D that compensates for a less than average arm. Unitas and Montana were very much running Offenses that were well ahead of the D's they faced that's also true of Len Dawson with the Chiefs who used a very creative play action to essentially throw to uncovered WR which made arm strength a moot point. They are exceptions to the rule but most great and very good NFL QB's have had exceptional arms.
Along with his incredible timing, he also had an uncanny ability to accurately hit his receivers in stride.
