^.. Hasselbeck and Bulger aren't journeymen. Hasselbeck is clearly a franchise QB and Bulger was too before he was ktfo a few dozen times the past 2 years. If he can return to his old form, I'd say he is still. I don't know if I'd call Jake Plummer a franchise QB, but he wasn't a journeyman either.
We can argue about franchise QBs all day. But let me ask this, when is the last time you looked at a Jets' QB and said "Wow, this guy is great. I sure hope he's our QB for the next 10 years!" It's been a long time for me.
I think we've done better than a lot of other teams in the QB department. I mean at least we're not the Bears. Judging by your username I doubt I've been a fan for nearly as long as you have, but there was definitely a time when I thought Pennington would be our franchise QB and right now I have a lot of (largely unprecedented) faith in Clemens. Before Pennington, I think O'Brien was, but I was really young back then.
You should read the posts I have already made in this thread that are actually logical. Research "franchise player" on the internet? What does that even mean? If you are a long time JetS fan you should not only know that the team name has an S on the end, but should also understand that the game has changed and that the simplistic view of football that you seem to have does not cut it any more if you want to be considered knowledgeable and have your opinions taken seriously.
The guys in my list are all journeymen. Good journeymen, but journeymen nonetheless. A franchise QB has a franchise assemble around him and become a force for a long run of years. It's kind of the definition of the term. You get this guy and you are going to be in the mix in a big way every year. Hasselback QB'd the Seahawks to one season of more than 10 wins. He QB'd them to two more season of 10 wins. In a 7 year career that is not particularly impressive. Bulger has once in his career QB'd the Rams to 12 wins, with no other totals above 8. 8! Plummer has the best record of any of them, but as soon as his team had a chance to replace him they did. That's not a franchise QB. BTW, one of the characteristics of a franchise QB is that nobody argues much over whether or not the guy is a franchise QB. Once the arguments begin it's pretty clear he's not.
Again, we can argue semantics all day. To me a "franchise" QB is a guy you either draft high or pick up with the plan of building around him and making a run over a period of years. Of course before free agency that was your only option, so that's what we did with Todd and with O'Brien. How it turns out in the end is anyone's guess, but then you have to go back later and evaluate whether the guy was or wasn't a "franchise" QB, that knowledge isn't available when you first get the guy and decide to build around him. Regarding Boomer, he certainly was a franchise QB for the Bengals and Coslet thought he still would be when he got him. Didn't work out that way, but going in he was about as much of a "franchise" QB as we were going to get.
Probably 2002, when Pennington was our former #1 pick and future guy, came off the bench and rallied us from 1-4 to the division title and a 41-0 playoff win at home. He was ultimately hampered by injuries, bad coaching and a couple of missed kicks to reach the AFC championship game, but to answer your question, that was when--not really that long ago. Again, what you hope for and how it works out are usually two different things.
I see your definition of "franchise QB" as more like "potential franchise QB". Virtually every team drafts a potential franchise QB at least once a decade. It's kind of the normal pattern to follow as a team's fortunes rise and fall over the years. Franchise QB's aren't based on draft position, although that's an important factor in finding one, and they're not based on individual performance, although strong individual performances often result in the franchise doing very well. Franchise QB's are based on whether or not they can consistently take the team to the highest level of performance. When you see a team that has "it" they almost always have a franchise QB running the show. The Steelers had a really good run early in Cowher's reign as head coach. He came in and totally shook things up and moved them to a 3-4 and just drafted and traded (Jerome Bettis) really well over a period of a couple of years and he got them back into the playoffs fast and even to a Super Bowl. But he was missing a franchise QB, and so the Steelers fell short in the end with Neil O'Donnell just not up to the task of finishing things off. Ok, so then Cowher literally went into the QB wilderness for a bunch of seasons in a row trying to find the guy who could take the Steelers over the top. He used Kordell Stewart until he realized that wasn't the guy, then he tried Tommy Maddox with a great gun, but that wasn't the guy either. Finally he drafted his franchise QB in Ben Roethlisberger and BAM the Steelers won two Super Bowls in three seasons. THAT is what a franchise QB is. The guy who comes in and suddenly you are going all the way and nobody wants to play you in the playoffs. That's what the Jets have been missing since Namath got hurt. We're going to have to go draft that guy though because nobody currently available otherwise fits the bill. I guess we have a 2% chance that one of our three guys can do it but that's probably all it is.
That's my whole point, I guess. You have no idea when you get your "franchise" QB how he's going to do until he does it, there's no way of knowing. He could be Peyton Manning or he could be Ryan Leaf. If you knew that ahead of time it would be easy, everyone would have a great QB.
Yeah, although I think all the signs were there with Manning and Leaf, which is why Manning went 1 and Leaf went 2. The other interesting thing is how rarely two or more great QB's come out and slot in the top 10 in the same year. In 2006 we had an amazing conjunction with Roethlisberger, Rivers and Eli Manning but that's the exception not the rule. It's also unusual that they got drafted in reverse order with the best of them taken third and the worst taken first. Obviously Eli is a decent QB but I would take Roethlisberger over him without thinking too hard about it. The leadership angle is under-rated also in franchise QB comparisons and Roethlisberger has a lot of it whereas Eli is low key and the Giants rely more on their defense for vocal leadership. The Giants clicked as soon as the loudmouth on offense, who was not the QB, got hurt and removed from the picture. I do think the QB should be the loudest voice on the team, particularly in the locker room. He's the closest thing that an NFL team has to management on the field and he should be prepared to take that role on and expect people looking to him for leadership.
You can't be a journeyman if you've only been a starter for one team. A journeyman is a player who travels from team to team looking for a chance to start. Being a franchise QB has nothing to do with the team's record; it's all about security of the position. Bulger has played his whole career in St Louis and all of Hasselbeck's starts are with Seattle. If a QB has been the starter for 6 or 8 years without question, he's the franchise's QB. Period.
I agree. I'd say a guy like Jeff Garcia would have to be called a journeyman, or Brad Johnson. Even Kurt Warner, he may be the best journeyman of all time.
Oh it's Jets? Thanks, never knew that. And yes I have simplistic views and know nothing as the post below cleary shows. Why don't you actually prove me wrong before criticizing me. Go ahead search real hard and you might actually find a post over the past five years where I've been wrong.
It means you're wrong again. Although this is just one definition from wiki you can find other similar ones, but of course you know better because, well, because you say so.
Of course we've all been wrong. It just grates me when people come on and say their ideas are superior to everyone elses with no data to back it up. The reason I seems to get it right fairly often is that I don't predict anything unless I'm fairly certain of it. For example, I can't really say who the Jets should or will take at 1.17. I don't know enough about the players at that point to be certain about anything. So I could sit here and say the Jets should take Sanchez and he will be a franchise quarterback. But I have no idea if that's true. So instead I say the Jets should take Sanchez if THEY feel he's a franchise quarterback and they don't feel they currently have one on the roster. On the other hand some people spout of about any topic as if they know it all. I try not to do that.
You mean this? omg, this is brilliant. I mean there's never been a team with a franchise QB to win a Super Bowl, it's always been about defense. I mean Joe Namath, Joe Montana, John Elway, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Steve Young, Roger Staubach, Brett Favre, Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman, . . . I mean none of these franchise QBs ever one a Super Bowl. Oh wait, I think Namath did. Well, surely a Jets fan would know that. Well Montana, uhhh wait, he did too. Well that Elway guy nev . . . Oh crap, I think they all did. My bad. I was just under the impression you need a franchise defense to win Super Bowls. Your post is full of it. Yes, you can win a Super Bowl with a "franchise defense", but that's doesn't mean you don't need a franchise players at the most important position on the field. So really, take your own advise and get real.
^ the Steelers and their franchise defense with Cowher is a good example. From 1992-2006 their defense was ranked 3, 2, 3, 2, 6, 12, 11, 7, 1, 7, 9, 1, and 4th. Cowher won a Super Bowl in his last year with Big Ben as his franchise QB. The defense kept them in the game, but its the QB that is the cherry on top to complete the Championship Sunday. The foundation is the defense. But its not complete when its just a foundation.
Yeah, but as good as the Steel Curtain was, the Steelers don't win those other Super Bowls without their franchise QB, franchise WRs, and franchise HB.
