well my one problem with this is simple. People die everyday. the rest of the world goes on around them. Boating accidents have happened before and will again. The only reason anybody really knows about it is because NFL players were aboard the boat. Had it just been 4 random people, the 95% of the people who heard the story wouldnt know about now. So this bugs me, because normal people die everyday who mean just as much to their families and their communities, as these players meant to their NFL squad, if not more. These guys get there number retired (even if only for a year) and the when a "normal" person dies, the world goes on, nobody on the other coast hears about it, nobody does anything truly special for those that the person left behind. Thats why it bugs me, the same as with Pat Tillman. Tillman was a hero, he died fighting for his country, so have hundreds of other brave americans. yet people want to put him in the hall of fame because he died in war. Yes he was a football player i believe he played 4 seasons, in Zona' all of which were productive, but he never made a pro bowl. Why should he make the NFL pro football hall of fame over a guy like Joe Klecko who has done things, that still can't be recreated today (pro bowl at 3 positions)? What about all of the other marines who had died in Iraq/Afghanistan they arent being talked about as being honored in some way even remotely comparable to Tillman. Death sucks, it blows, it destroys lives and leaves behind terrible heartache. But when a person dies they dont get honored like that. Why should a marginal football player from a historically bad team get remembered like this?
KOZ took my post out of context I took the opportunity to return the favor. If you were looking for deeper meaning in my response you were looking too hard. The connection you are looking for is about as flimsy as the idea that I was upset about a boating accident setting a precident. As I Jet fan I am very surprised that everyone seems to be onboard with this since the Jets have only retired three numbers in the history of the franchsie. When I think about a player getting his number retired I think about Joe Namath, Don Maynard, and Joe Klecko. I also think about guys like Wesley Walker, Al Toon, Mark Gastineau, Ken O'Brien and other Jet greats that will never get their number retired. The Lions can do whatever floats their boat to honor their deceased teammate but this move doesn't make much sense to me.
I don't agree with the guy on the issue, but that hardly makes him an idiot. People are entitled to their opinions. On the other hand, you could use a class on reading comprehension:
The people who want Tillman inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame are morons who know very little about the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Bob Kalsu and Tillman will never be enshrined.
Neither will the other 24 members of the NFL that were killed in action. However there should be a memorial at the HOF for them. Here is a list of the member of the NFL who died in action WORLD WAR II Cpl. Mike Basca (HB, Philadelphia, 1941) ? Killed in France in 1944 Lt. Charlie Behan (E, Detroit, 1942) ? Killed on Okinawa in 1945 Maj. Keith Birlem (E, Cardinals-Washington, 1939) ? Killed trying to land combat-damaged bomber in England in 1943 Lt. Al Blozis (T, Giants, 1942-1944) ? Killed in France, 1945 Lt. Chuck Braidwood (E, Portsmouth-Cleveland-Cardinals-Cincinnati, 1930-1933) ? Member of Red Cross. Killed in South Pacific, winter 1944-1945 Lt. Young Bussey (QB, Bears, 1940-1941) ? Killed in Philippines landing assault in 1944 Lt. Jack Chevigny (Coach, Cardinals, 1932) ? Killed on Iwo Jima in 1945 Capt. Ed Doyle (E, Frankford-Pottsville, 1924-1925) ? Killed during North Africa invasion in 1942 Lt. Col. Grassy Hinton (B, Staten Island, 1932) ? Killed in plane crash in East Indies in 1944 Capt. Smiley Johnson (G, Green Bay, 1940-1941) ? Killed on Iwo Jima in 1945 Lt. Eddie Kahn (G, Boston/Washington, 1935-1937) ? Died from wounds suffered during Leyte invasion in 1945 Sgt. Alex Ketzko (T, Detroit, 1943) ? Killed in France in 1944 Capt. Lee Kizzire (FB, Detroit, 1937) ? Shot down near New Guinea in 1943 Lt. Jack Lummus (E, Giants, 1941) ? Killed on Iwo Jima in 1945 Bob Mackert (T, Rochester Jeffersons, 1925) Frank Maher (B, Pittsburgh-Cleveland Rams, 1941) Pvt. Jim Mooney (E-G-FB, Newark-Brooklyn-Cincinnati-St. Louis-Cardinals, 1930-1937) ? Killed by sniper in France in 1944 Lt. John O?Keefe (Front office, Philadelphia) ? Killed flying a patrol mission in Panama Canal Zone Chief Spec. Gus Sonnenberg (B, Buffalo-Columbus-Detroit-Providence, 1923-1928, 1930) ? Died of illness at Bethesda Naval Hospital in 1944 Lt. Len Supulski (E, Philadelphia, 1942) ? Killed in plane crash in Nebraska in 1944 Lt. Don Wemple (E, Brooklyn, 1941) ? Killed in plane crash in India in 1944 Lt. Chet Wetterlund (HB, Cardinals-Detroit, 1942) ? Killed in plane crash off New Jersey coast in 1944 Capt. Waddy Young (E, Brooklyn, 1939-1940) ? Killed in plane crash following first B-29 raid on Tokyo in 1945 VIETNAM Lt. Bob Kalsu (G, Buffalo, 1968) ? Killed in an attack while defending Base Ripcord on July 21, 1970 Maj. Don Steinbrunner (T, Cleveland Browns, 1953) ? Shot down over Kontum, South Vietnam on July 20, 1967 WAR ON ISLAMIC FASCISM Cpl. Pat Tillman (DB, Arizona, 1998-2001) ? Killed in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004
The thing that most shocked me about what happened was how far out to sea they were. I spend a fair amount of time out on the ocean in the summer on a friends 25 foot boat. And let me tell you there is no way in hell...ever...that I would be on that boat if he took it 20 - 30 miles off shore. The water out that far is so unpredictable. The water can appear calm on the coast or even a few miles out but once you get out that far...forget it. 8-12 seas off the coast of NJ aren't rare. If I was in 12 foot seas in a 25 footer I be shitting my pants. Sometimes young guys (myself included) just feel invisible I suppose...its a shame.
They retired no. 20. I was at the game. They retired no. 20 for Sanders, Sims and Barney. They retired his number on thanksgiving 2004
I'm not sure what Hasty is trying to get at with his argument and, personally, I'm more inclined to agree with cakes about the practice in general. Retiring a player's jersey is a pretty arbitrary show of respect to me. They might as well blast his name-plate from his locker into space with the next shuttle mission. I like what the Lions are doing here, though. Great way to commemorate the player.
